176 or hold out for a 457??

[piccolo]

thanks Camilla...but we've no emplyer to date so I think we'll just go down the 176 instead. Who knows, if an employer comes up in the meantime, it's certainly something worth considering.

Sophie....so 4-6 months huh? God I can just see all my redundancy monies slowly depleting before me!!! The longer we stay in Ireland the less money we have going with us as I'll have to use it to live off. Better get moving on the skills assessment so, that can take 2 months apparently. I'll be lucky to get out to Perth before Xmas at this rate!

[Gollywobbler]

We are very confused at the moment. My OH has applied to over 14 companies for a 457 offered position in CNC Machining/Fitting. He has had no joy so far. We have held off on applying for a state sponsored visa as he would have to pay to sit the IELTS exam and also for a TRA skills assessment so we thought we might save money by trying to go down the 457 route first. But nothing is happening and he is starting to become disheartened.

So should he just go ahead and get his skills assessed and apply for the exam anyway? And then apply for state sponsored? I haven't read enough on this to know, once a state sponsored is granted, you can then go and apply for a 176 is that right?

thanks for any help you can offer

Hi Piccolo

I don't work as a migration agent. I am merely a qualified lawyer who has a purely academic interest in the subject of Australian Immigration Law.

Browsing the titles of the threads on this forum, I clicked on yours because I was puzzled by your question. If you like, the "received wisdom" is that in the end it is nearly always going to be better to get a GSM visa that confers immediate PR (ie a State sponsored sc 176) if possible because although that might be more expensive up-front, it will offer much greater flexibility once the new migrant moves out to Oz.

For one thing, the sc 176 visa is a "one stop shop." The only further step involving DIAC would be an application for Aussie Citizenship in due course if the migrant wants to become an Aussie Citizen, which itself is only an optional extra by way of an idea.

I used to know a guy who was a Bricklayer in Scotland, a guy whose user-name was Billy Braveheart. Billy was 44 and he consulted a migration agent in the UK who mucked him around and his 45th birthday was allowed to pass without anything having been done on the visa front. Therefore Billy had no choice but to look for an employer-sponsor.

He found an employer-sponsor in Perth who offered him a sc 457 visa. Tony Coates is a very experienced Registered Migration Agent who now lives and works in Perth. He told Billy to get himself a TRA skills assessment even though it wasn't an essential pre-requisite for a sc 457 visa at the time (2007/2008, from memory.) So Billy got the skills assessment and his 457 visa and went out to Perth.

Because Billy already had a TRA skills assessment, it was possible to insist that the employer must sponsor him for an ENS visa after a "probation period" of only 12 weeks work out in Perth. This part of the deal was all written into Billy's Employment Contract, so the obligation was watertight.

Billy and the employer got on with things and started the process of applying for Billy's ENS visa pretty promptly. DIAC were the foot-draggers and so the cogs ground very slowly at DIAC's end for several months. After about 8 months, they got to the point where DIAC were going to grant the ENS visa at any minute and it was just a matter of keeping an eye open for the long-awaited visa grant e-mail.

It was a Friday evening and Billy was driving home from work in Perth. Nobody knows what went wrong because he was alone in his brand-new Ute and he can't remember anything about the accident. However Billy had THE most appalling road accident that very nearly killed him. He was taken to Charlie's Hospital in Perth (the Sir Charles Gairdner, because they do all the liver transplants in WA and the paramedics at the scene suspected that Billy's extensive injuries included a ruptured liver.) Billy spent the next 5 weeks in Intensive Care at Charlie's, during which time he underwent 5 operations and I think they replaced all of his blood about 3 times as well. The accident happened exactly 11 months to the day since Billy had first landed in Perth. No other vehicle was involved - his car just suddenly careered off the road and into a tree, according to the only eye-witness who had been following in his own car behind Billy's and who immediately summoned the emergency services.

On the one hand, we were all worrying about Billy's medical condition. On the other hand, we were worrying about the ENS visa as well because that had not been granted by the time the accident happened. If Billy had already been a Permanent Resident it would actually have been much easier for his wife because Centrelink would have granted Special Benefit in that situation, despite the fact that Billy would not hvae been a PR for 2 years. The situation was outside Billy's own control, so Special Benefit could have been claimed.

As it was, Centrelink could not help because the family were not Permanent Residents. (Luckily, they were British and the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement between Oz and the UK strutted its stuff so Billy did not have to pay any of the horrendously high medical bill.) Also, Bily's 457 employer-sponsor was an exceptionally nice and exceptionally conscientious Aussie. He really was exceptional, not just "quite good."

The employer reassured everyone that Billy was insured to the hilt and that the insurers would continue to pay his basic salary for 12 months. This went a long way to alleviating the financial worries but normally a Brickie could expect to earn a whole lot extra in overtime payments etc, plus when someone is seriously ill the phone bill rockets with international calls back to Scotland, the petrol bill rockets because of all the extra running around that Billy's wife had to do - and so forth.

It also turned out that Billy had been so badly injured that it was doubtful whether he would ever be able to work as a Brickie again. He had broken one of his shoulders and one of his ankles, as well as a load of internal injuries. It takes about 3 years for fractures of that type to heal fully and one does not know whether resuming full-time work as a Brickie is ever going to be possible until the Brickie is able to give it a go and see what happens.

The employer was as solid as a rock. He said he would continue to sponsor Billy and would do everything to secure PR for the family and he would continue to employ Biliy for as long as Billy wanted BUT - even this saint of an employer was not going to be prepared to pay Billy over the odds and pay him for more hours a week than Billy was actually capable of working for. The doctors said that Billy would get to a stage where he didn't need any further medical help but they couldn't say whether Billy would ever become fully fit again, and so forth.

DIAC were also very good. As soon as they were told about the accident, they suspended processing the ENS application but the Medical Officer of the Commonwealth is a doctor with the patience of Job. Billy's visa medical would have to be done again but the MOC agreed to extend the validity of the visa meds for Billy's wife and children. The MOC was also very sympathetc to the other doctors and to Billy about Bily's own second visa medical, so the ENS visa was granted about 9 months after the accident, once Billy's own doctors said that his body had healed enough for the second visa meds.

In the end, though, Billy left Australia and returned to Scotland. He had PR before he left Oz so he would still be able to go back - DIAC would give him an RRV even if he hasn't spent the necessary amount of time in Oz etc because his situation is so very unusual and it is outside his own control. Nonetheless, I suspect that the Australian Dream is probably over for Billy.

I've described his situation at length because one doesn't think about the practicalities when one is considering visas "as an abstract concept," as it were.

Billy, his family and his friends all received a colossal amount of reassurance from Billy's absolutely wonderful employer-sponsor. He really did go the extra mile for longer than anyone could reasonably have demanded of him but even he was not going to be able to do that forever.

I often wonder what would have happened if Billy had been able to get a State sponsored sc 176 visa before he first went to Oz. Worrying about visas and Centrelink is not helpful when the medical situation is so serious. Billy might still have chosen to return to Scotland in the end but nobody will ever know (least of all him) whether he would have decided to stay in Oz if he had had PR before the accident happened.

Cheers

Gill

[Gollywobbler]

thanks Camilla...but we've no emplyer to date so I think we'll just go down the 176 instead. Who knows, if an employer comes up in the meantime, it's certainly something worth considering.

Sophie....so 4-6 months huh? God I can just see all my redundancy monies slowly depleting before me!!! The longer we stay in Ireland the less money we have going with us as I'll have to use it to live off. Better get moving on the skills assessment so, that can take 2 months apparently. I'll be lucky to get out to Perth before Xmas at this rate!

Hi again, Piccolo

How old is Hubby, please? Also, if you have any children, how old are they?

You have just reminded me that one of the concerns with Billy was his son Marc, who turned 18 just after the accident. Because Marc was the secondary holder of a 457 visa, it would have been too expensive to send him to college whilst they were on the 457. Marc got a part-time job at the local McJunk fast food outlet but we all took great care to tell him not to work enough hours for DIAC to be able to claim that Marc had turned 18 and was no longer financially dependent on Billy. It worked OK and Marc was included in Billy's ENS visa in the end, though his parents didn't approve of the friends he made via McJunk and the sort of lifestyle that Marc and his McJunk friends were leading.

I suspect that there is more to considering your own situation than just worrying about your bank account during the next few months.

Cheers

Gill

[Gollywobbler]

Hi there, we was in exactly the same position as you and was holding on for a 457.... My other half is an Electrician an couldn't find anyone interested in sponsering us. After 6mths we got fed up of waiting and have just submitted out 176 state sponsorship application. I personally would go ahead with the Ielts and skill assessment and go the permanent visa route. It may be more expensive but we feel better in the long run and current lead times are between 4-6mths (so I've been told). If anyone knows any different or has recently had any experience with this visa then I'd love to hear.
Hope that helps Sophie

Hi Sophie

In Piccolo's shoes, so would I! I completely agree with what you have said.

Cheers

Gill

[Gollywobbler]

Hello verystormy, since the introduction of Perth as a Regional Area for the purpose of RSMS visas, many employers are now seeing the benefit of employing staff on a RSMS. This offers the employer the opportunity to secure continuity of staff as the visa is for a minimum of 2 years, whereas with a 457, staff in high demand roles ie engineering, health specialists, are switching sponsors, therefore the employer loses staff to competitors paying higher $$$. Also as a RSMS offers permanency many employers feel that they are getting loyalty from their staff as they are offering the migrant permanent residency and subsequently some security. With regards to the cost the VAC is more at around $3000 (plus if the secondary applicant is not English speaking some additional fees) , however with regards to processing times, DIAC are currently processing DEcision Ready Applications from Migration Agents that were submitted at the end of November. RSMS is Priority 1 for processing. Therefore the turnaround from appointment of CO is very quick. I would advise anyone, if offered the opportunity to grasp a RSMS visa with both hands. The current amount of visas to be granted is 16000 until the end of June 2012. This may/could change next year. Also who knows how long Perth CBD will stay on the current Legislative Instrument for RSMS??? This visa is currently a fantastic opportunity for prospective migrants with an employer. Yes, it is complex and there is a huge amount of paperwork and documentation involved, but it is one of the best opportunities for migrants headed to Perth. I believe the benefits certainly outweigh the costs.
I am happy to discuss this visa further with any employers thinking of recruiting overseas staff.

Hi Camilla

I'm interested in what you have said above. It makes a lot of sense and I can see distinct advantages from the employer's point of view. As an employer, my attitude is that if someone is good enough to hire then they are also good enough to keep. An RSMS visa will keep the employee-immigrant chained to me for at least 12 months unless something goes drastically wrong. The holder of a GSM visa might not have quite as much loyalty towards me as I would like, and so forth.

Do you know what WA DET are doing about RSMS visas, by any chance? A couple of years ago, I got involved with helping a British Secondary School Teacher who was sponsored by WA DET.

It turned out that WA DET had reached an agreement with DIAC that WA DET's own Policy was to refuse to nominate a foreign Teacher for an immediate RSMS or even an ENS visa unless WA DET wanted the Teacher to go to the Backofbeyondup - the sort of dump that the average Aussie Teacher simply won't go to once the Aussie Teacher has a Partner and some children.

The British Teacher agreed to be employed "in the Pilbara." In return, WA DET nominated him for an immediate RSMS visa and although they didn't pay anything towards getting the Teacher and his family out to Australia, they did pay a huge whack of the costs after the family had reached Perth.

Some parts of the Pilbara are quite nice. Karratha, for instance, is not bad. Dampier and the Dampier Archipelago are to die for, and so forth. Newman is not quite so jolly, though.....

The British Teacher got the short straw and was sent to Newman. Within 6 weeks of arrival, his wife had a complete mental breakdown and he wasn't too far behind, either. The culture shock of a township like Newman was just too much for a couple from rural Wales, frankly - which is leafy, green and the climate is usually mild. They had 3 children aged 12 downwards. It is not much good for the children when their parents can't cope, obviously.

I'm in the UK though my mother and sister live in Perth. My phone rang at 01:00 UK time one morning, so I dug myself out of slumber and answered it. The British Teacher and his wife were on the other end, sobbing their hearts out. It was clear that they felt conpletely trapped, completely helpless and they complained bitterly that the woman at WA DET who looks after the immigrant staff was refusing to take any notice of them and their woes. What did I think they should do?

I told them both to see a doctor without a moment's delay and get one of their Teacher colleagues to help them to keep an eye on their children for a start. At least another Teacher can be trusted to ensure that the children will be fed and that they will not come to any harm, I felt.

Meanwhile I phoned my friend Nigel Dobbie in Sydney:

http://www.ddilawyers.com/directors_profiles.php

He's used to Aunt Gill wailing for his immediate help! Nigel told me casually that Newman is a dreadful place - he went there a few times when he was playing rugby in his youth, so he said. I screeched, "Never mind that! Please phone the Teacher and then phone the Top Boss at WA DET! I've told the couple to involve a doctor but apparently the DET woman is threatening to get the RSMS visa cancelled. Someone needs to lock her in a cupboard whilst the rest of us sort the situation out properly. PLEASE DO SOMETHING!"

Bless him, Nigel is always first rate in a crisis.

Jeez. I'd never have suggested a doctor in Newman if I had understood that side of things properly, though. The first doctor was British, which was a start because he could speak English. However he was also only a locum who had been sent to Newman for 2 weeks. He did what a GP in the UK would have done - which was to give the Teacher a sick-note for 2 weeks.

All hell then broke loose. It turned out that WorkCover have to get involved because the employer in Oz is entitled to stop paying the employee's salary forthwith. The WorkCover woman was dreadful - even worse than the woman from WA DET. The WorkCover woman said that she had 5 working days in which she had to complete a shed-load of bureaucratic Forms and God knows what. When somebody is having a mental breakdown, removing the emotional pressure from the patient is not an idea that can be found in WorkCover's Book of Roolz, evidently. She phoned the Teacher every couple of hours, bullying him mercilessly and pestering his life out.

She also took it upon herself to bully the British locum doctor. She phoned him and demanded that he must fax all the confidential medical notes straight to herself. In the UK, he'd have told her to p*ss off but he was as confused as everyone else so he did what she ordered. His patients found out about the total breach of medical confidentiality later.

The doctor's clinical assessment was that the first thing to do was just to give his Teacher patient a couple of weeks off sick. See if having time to himself would be enough to calm him down and give him enough time to decide what to do next, time to involve an RMA and a lawyer if he wanted to do so, and so on. In the UK, nobody would rush to send the patient to see a Trick Cyclist in a situation like this.

The WorkCover woman bullied the doctor next. He couldn't just sign someone off sick in Australia. He was told that he had to make an immediate referral to a clinical psychologist or a suitable shrink! "DO IT NOW - LIKE YESTERDAY," he was told. It is a bit surprising that he didn't have a nervous breakdown as well, frankly. He had vaguely heard of a suitable medical practice in Perth, so he refrerred the Teacher to a psychiatrist in Perth and appointment to see the specialist doctor was made.

The WorkCover woman screamed that the patient must see the specialist within 5 working days so as to enable her to fulfil her own bureacucratic deadlines. I asked Nigel to tell her to shut the f*** up. Which he did. It is completely unrealistic to demand that every part of the process has to suit some little half-trained clerk from WorkCover, frankly. A chimp could have done her job perfectly well without any of the hysteria and bullying that was coming from her.

Meanwhile, the Teacher was supposed to go to Perth. 1100kms from Newman. It is possible to get to Perth by air from Newman but it is not cheap. The Teacher would have to pay for the journey and he would also have to pay for the consultation with the psychiatrist in Perth, it turned out. However, WA DET had stopped paying his salary, so what did Officialdom expect him to use for money? Officialdom neither knew nor cared about that, it seemed.

The entire situation spiralled completely out of control within the first 3 working days, frankly. I was horrified because I had been under the romantic impression that the Australian Government had discovered the concept of "enlightenment" during the last 150 years, but evidently not if this situation was anything to go by.

The Teacher and his wife seemed to me to be becoming even more ill than they had been in the beginning. I had already agreed with Nigel that I would provide the pastoral care whilst he dealt with any legal brickbats and with Officialdom. Couldn't we tell WA DET that they were heading the right way to cop a massive claim for damages for Personal Injury unless they got real, got the situation by the scruff of its neck and calmed the whole thing down? Surely we could issue a few counter-threats of our own? Nigel agreed that this idea would not be impossible so he had a "chat" with the Top Dog of WA DET.

I can tell you, Camilla. The doctors' practice in Newman had a female Practice Manager. Her husband was involved with iron ore mining, she told us, but she came from QLD and she agreed with me that somebody needed to do some barking on behalf of the patient.

Enter the second locum doctor, the first one having completed his 2 week stint in Newman. The second doctor was from Eastern Europe, could hardly speak a word of English but managed to get it across that he knows how to deal with a broken skull though his own medical training did not include anything about mental trauma to the soft tissues inside the human skull, so he helpfully advised his patient. In short, he had even less of a Clue than the first locum doctor.

Thank God for the Practice Manager from QLD, frankly. She said that there was no need for anybody to travel to Perth because the mining company that owns the Mt Whaleback iron ore mine also pays the salary of a clinical psychologist based in Newman. The Practice Manager said that the female clinical psychologist had been specially trained to understand the problems associated with culture shock in a place like Newman so she cancelled the appointment with the psychiatrist in Perth and arranged for the couple to see the local lady instead.

The local lady produced a predictable report. Newman was the problem because of the culture shock and the only way to solve it was for WA DET to move the couple to another location. Everybody involved had known that from Day One but it required the combined efforts of the Practice Manager and the Clinical Psychologist in Newman before Officialdom started to sit up and pay attention.

Meanwhile, this British Teacher teaches Maths to children of all levels. His skills were sorely needed in Mandurah according to the job adverts on the WA GOV website and also those of all the private schools in the area. By then, WA DET had finally decided to start communucating with him properly. The original clerk's senior Manager got involved - with me constantly growling about the possibility of a Personal Injury claim. Mandurah would be a survivable environment for the Teacher's wife, which Newman was not, so how about moving the family to Mandurah? The Peel Region has always been "regional" in visa terms, after all...

The Manager from WA DET said that Mandurah would not be a goer. Apparently the Agreement between DIAC and WA DET insists that "regional WA" means "only those parts of WA that the average Aussie is unlikely even to visit, let alone live in." One must concede that Newman probably fits this informal definition most admirably, would you not agree?!

Eventually it was agreed that Kalgoorlie would probably suit all the parties, just about, so the family went there and once the decision to go there had been made, WA DET excelled themselves. They paid for the whole family to travel by air. They arranged and paid for a road train to take their car and all their other belongings from Newman to Kalgoorlie. They found and rented a brand-new, large house in Kalgoorlie that was nowhere near an Aboriginal settlement, unlike the ancient hovel of a dwelling that the family had been "provided with" in Newman, and so forth. It did all work out in the end, so our own side dropped the threat of a Personal Injury claim.

The reason why I have gassed on to you at length, Camilla, is because I can see from your MARN that you only became an RMA very recently. Your website says that you have recently completed the post-graduate Certificate in Migration Law & Practice or whatever it is called. I have cussed the uselessness of this mickey-mouse short course (the brevity and superficial quality of which is both breathtaking and alarming imho) to Nigel, at length. I have also cussed it to George Lombard RMA and to anyone else who will listen including the Top Brass at DIAC. Why on earth don't they insist that only qualified legal practitioners are allowed to get involved with issues of Aussie Immi Law?

Nigel deflects my criticism. He would! He teaches parts of the mickey-mouse course and I imagine that he also earns a sizeable whack from teaching the subsequent CPD elements. George says that it used to be a heck of a lot worse, so I should be grateful for small mercies! DIAC say that they think that, on the whole, the current level of "training" for RMAs is probably OK because it is rare for an RMA to have to cope with a really serious situation like Billy's or that of the British Teacher. I do agree with DIAC - mostly, it is very rare to come across a serious problem so to involve Nigel or George every time would have a lot in common with using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

https://www.mara.gov.au/agent/ARDeta...e&FolderID=394

I see from the Register that you are not a legal practitioner and it would seem that you only became an RMA very recently. What did you do before that, please?

Cheers

Gill

[piccolo]

Hi Gill, my husband is 34 and we have a one year old daughter. Your post was very interesting and you're right, I never really thought about it. I suppose I thought more of just doing what we can to get out to Perth ASAP whether it was on a temp or perm visa.....but ya of course now I can see that perm is the one to go with for the added benefits it brings. Thanks again.

[New Life Down Under]

Hello Gill
What a terrible experience for these people. I have never visited the Pilbara region, the furthest I have been is Broome which is a beautiful tourist spot! I belive that this part of WA is very inhospitable and I imagine the working conditions are very tough. I agree it is very sad when people do not get the support from their employer. It is tough migrating here, leaving family behind and moving to somewhere with no support...
To answer your other question, no I am not a legal practitioner, just a Registered Migration Agent. For extremely complex cases and Tribunal issues, I would agree with you, it would always be best for a client to see a Migration Lawyer and I have heard that Nigel Dobbie is one of the best in Australia.
Having worked in HR and Recruitment for many years prior to becoming a Migration Agent, I can see the benefits for clients and employers trying to go for a RSMS visa as opposed to a temporary visa, as this will offer them more security.
By the way, are the family you referred to now happy and settled in Kalgoorlie?

[Gollywobbler]

Hello Gill
What a terrible experience for these people. I have never visited the Pilbara region, the furthest I have been is Broome which is a beautiful tourist spot! I belive that this part of WA is very inhospitable and I imagine the working conditions are very tough. I agree it is very sad when people do not get the support from their employer. It is tough migrating here, leaving family behind and moving to somewhere with no support...
To answer your other question, no I am not a legal practitioner, just a Registered Migration Agent. For extremely complex cases and Tribunal issues, I would agree with you, it would always be best for a client to see a Migration Lawyer and I have heard that Nigel Dobbie is one of the best in Australia.
Having worked in HR and Recruitment for many years prior to becoming a Migration Agent, I can see the benefits for clients and employers trying to go for a RSMS visa as opposed to a temporary visa, as this will offer them more security.
By the way, are the family you referred to now happy and settled in Kalgoorlie?

Hi Camilla

Thanks very much for your reply and for your honesty. You have just rocketed upwards big-style in my estimation.

I don't know what happened about the British Teacher in the end. The family moved to Kalgoorlie but then their eldest child - a daughter who was about 13 by then - started playing up. The daughter suddenly became a Recluse and was piling it on with emotional blackmail. Who's to say? I suspected that she was probably feeding off Mum's misery and that the pair of them were probably blackmailing Dad. The younger children had nothing to say but Dad was the only one who really wanted to stay in Australia. Mum hated Australia - that had been obvious from the beginning.

Dad told me that it had been decided that Mum and the children would return to Wales in October that year. Dad would follow in December and then they would all return to Perth/Kal in January, he said. He said that they would all be returning to the UK for a "short holiday." I wondered what would actually happen once they returned to Wales and he copped it from his wife's parents and siblings in Wales?

I heard no more. I suspect that they might have decided to stay in the UK but I do not know for sure. I hadn't reckoned on antics from the Daughter and neither had her father, to be honest. I think it is one of those situations where "Australia does not suit everybody" - it happens. There is nothing much that anyone can do if it does happen, I suspect.

Broome! I've always wanted to go there!! I'm into boats and the idea of pearl diving fascinates me. I get a regular Newsletter from the Pearl Jewellery people in Broome - simply because I am interested so I signed up for the Newsletter. I believe that Cable Beach is in Broome? I saw a TV clip in which the local Police Boss said laconically that people used to be shark-bait if they swam from this beach but that it is OK nowadays.

Your idea of combining Recruitment and Visas is excellent, in my view. Very few RMAs do both but I think there is a definite demand for it. I also think that when the EOI idea comes into force, the demand for GSM visas will collapse. Australia is not as wunnerful as the Fed Govt believes, I suspect.

If I'm right then employer-sponsored visas will come to the fore. So I think that you are absolutely on the right track.

Cheers

Gill

PS - are you aware that the name "Camilla" has connotations in the UK? The Prince of Wales' second wife is called Camilla. When she was married to her first husband, she was Mrs Camilla Parker-Bowles, married to an Army Vet and it was all most respectable. Then the sordid truth began to emerge, whereupon she became known as Camilla Park-N-Ride. Life happens so sh*t also happens, I suspect!

[Ozberry]

Hi!

Our situation is that we have State Sponsorship with WA and ready to lodge with DIAC for 176 but hubby has had job offer promised so waiting on that (on 457). Been waiting a while and getting really impatient so we have 2 options:

1. Keep waiting on job offer (457) and ask for them to help obtain permanent residency and ask for it to be written into contract
2. Apply for 176 ourselves

With option 1 we would be lucky enough to have the employer pay our visa costs and flights but with option 2 we would have to pay around £3,000 (visa and medicals) ourselves that we might not have had to spend if the job offer comes through.

Obviously with the high costs of migrating we do not want to spend the £3k but sometimes it feels like we will be waiting forever for the offer. On the other hand we would be grateful for the job offer and wouldn't expect the earth from the employer but what if they would have met the costs anyway?

Grateful for any advice you can give.

[piccolo]

Gollywobbler: "Broome! I've always wanted to go there!! I'm into boats and the idea of pearl diving fascinates me. I get a regular Newsletter from the Pearl Jewellery people in Broome - simply because I am interested so I signed up for the Newsletter. I believe that Cable Beach is in Broome? I saw a TV clip in which the local Police Boss said laconically that people used to be shark-bait if they swam from this beach but that it is OK nowadays."

Just wanted to add that I lived in Broome for about 4 months and it is THE most wonderful place ever. I loved every second of it. I lived a stone's throw from Cable Beach and swam there often. When I was there (10 yrs ago) there were no traffic lights in town, which I loved! I think there's one now! I have wonderful memories of working in Divers Bar. I also was a cook at the WA Dept of Education Kids Camp and we used to have BBQs every thursday down on the beach for all the aboriginal kids....great fun. Go visit!! It's worth the trip!