Legal Jobs

Hi there all,

Me and my Hubby are in the initial stages of applying for visas, our hope is to move to Perth with our daughter in the next 18 months. Can anyone shed any light on how the job front is in Perth at the moment? is there plenty of jobs or is it like the UK? my husband is a lawyer and im a full time mother. However i have an Early Years Degree and wondered if id be well qualified for any job in Perth. I undersatnd that my Hubby needs to complete more study in Perth to get his UK LLB qualifications in line with the Australian LLB. Also, if there are any solicitors out there that can tell us our realistic chances of a UK laywer getting employed in Perth we would be greatful. We have no idea if this area is as difficult to make a future out of as it is in the UK. Any information would be great!! People tell us that we need to get jobs sorted before we move but we have no idea how realistic this is and how to go about getting a job whilst still in the UK.

Cheers.

Can't answer your specific job questions, but wanted to welcome you to PP

Who is going to be the main visa applicant?

What sort of lawyer is your husband? If he's in construction/Corporate/Banking then he won't have too many problems in Perth, I know a couple of lawyers in that part of the industry and they are doing ok. I wouldn't say there are 'plenty' of jobs around at all, but it really depends on I think a large amount of luck and what your experience is in. Some friends have had no problems working and switching jobs whenever they like, for us it's been harder - OH was out of work for 7 months out of the last year.

In terms of him qualifying as a lawyer in WA it is a very long and frustrating process. He'll have to apply to the WA Legal Practice Board who will assess his skills - he'll have to find certificates and transcripts and course descriptions and they will then decide which subjects he'll need to study at a university over here. It seems to depend on who assesses you as to how many you'll have to do - some get 4 units, my OH got 6 units - which is going to take a couple of years and a lot of money (unless you're lucky enough to find a company to pay for it). We worked out 6 units was going to be around $15k.

Who is going to be the main visa applicant?

 

What sort of lawyer is your husband? If he's in construction/Corporate/Banking then he won't have too many problems in Perth, I know a couple of lawyers in that part of the industry and they are doing ok. I wouldn't say there are 'plenty' of jobs around at all, but it really depends on I think a large amount of luck and what your experience is in. Some friends have had no problems working and switching jobs whenever they like, for us it's been harder - OH was out of work for 7 months out of the last year.

 

In terms of him qualifying as a lawyer in WA it is a very long and frustrating process. He'll have to apply to the WA Legal Practice Board who will assess his skills - he'll have to find certificates and transcripts and course descriptions and they will then decide which subjects he'll need to study at a university over here. It seems to depend on who assesses you as to how many you'll have to do - some get 4 units, my OH got 6 units - which is going to take a couple of years and a lot of money (unless you're lucky enough to find a company to pay for it). We worked out 6 units was going to be around $15k.

Thanks so much for your reply!

What lawyer is your husband? wow that's a lot of money, did he agree with what they told him to do as ive herd that some people feel that they are rather unfair with what units they make you retake. OH will be the main applicant as I don't really want to work as I have our children to consider but if it will take years then looks like I have no choice!!! Is your OH paying or has he had them paid for? is he doing them full time? Did your OH get work after the 7 months off?

Thanks again not many people seem to be in this situation so its really good to talk to people who have been there and done it.

I would give some of the recruitment agencies a call and ask them. A friend of ours recruits lawyers in Perth and she's a Brit so I'm sure she would have a good idea and be able to advise. She works at Interpeople.

Ah, well more to our story! He was in a slightly different situation because he hadn't qualified in the UK (done the law degree and LPC but not the training contract) he would have had to study the PLT again out here (and your OH wouldn't have to do that). So he did start the qualifications with UWA, but his employer withdrew their support at the last minute and also made him redundant so he pulled out before he was going to be charged the fees. This was the time he was unemployed for 7 months, in that time we decided that spending $20k+ on legal qualifications (including the PLT) with no real guarantee of a job at the end of it wasn't the way forward. So he's concentrating his efforts on a different area of study now that's less expensive but will still lead to a professional qualification at the end of it.

He has now got another job, works for a local council in their governance department, been there about 6 weeks now so is a big relief!

Do you realise that your OH needs to be eligible for admission as a lawyer before he'll be able to pass a skills test for a visa? So he will need to study from the UK (if that's possible) and pass all the units before he will be eligible for a visa. Alternatively if he can secure 457 sponsorship then I do know someone who came over that way and is studying to qualify over here with her employers support. I have heard of some people disputing the amount of units required, but only on forums!

Thank you so very much Lou that's so much help!! we looked for recruitment agencies but seemed to get loads of stuff about legal Visa help!?!? I think because were still in the UK google doesn't like us trying to search Aussie information!

Husband is corporate law has open university degree stuff in business and finance that's his area along with employment law. Hope that this will be an area that he can get into easily(ish??) thanks again x

Ah, well more to our story! He was in a slightly different situation because he hadn't qualified in the UK (done the law degree and LPC but not the training contract) he would have had to study the PLT again out here (and your OH wouldn't have to do that). So he did start the qualifications with UWA, but his employer withdrew their support at the last minute and also made him redundant so he pulled out before he was going to be charged the fees. This was the time he was unemployed for 7 months, in that time we decided that spending $20k+ on legal qualifications (including the PLT) with no real guarantee of a job at the end of it wasn't the way forward. So he's concentrating his efforts on a different area of study now that's less expensive but will still lead to a professional qualification at the end of it.

 

 

He has now got another job, works for a local council in their governance department, been there about 6 weeks now so is a big relief!

 

Do you realise that your OH needs to be eligible for admission as a lawyer before he'll be able to pass a skills test for a visa? So he will need to study from the UK (if that's possible) and pass all the units before he will be eligible for a visa. Alternatively if he can secure 457 sponsorship then I do know someone who came over that way and is studying to qualify over here with her employers support. I have heard of some people disputing the amount of units required, but only on forums!

ooh bumma!!! no we didn't realise!! my OH works in a large law firm but has not completed his TC so we are in the same position as you really! We are trying to find ways to do the study before in Oz but we are struggling. He emailed all of WA unis to see if they had a distance learning option but we are coming up against brick walls!! we would be happy to pay the money if there is a good chance that jobs will be available afterwards!!

ooh bumma!!! no we didn't realise!! my OH works in a large law firm but has not completed his TC so we are in the same position as you really! We are trying to find ways to do the study before in Oz but we are struggling. He emailed all of WA unis to see if they had a distance learning option but we are coming up against brick walls!! we would be happy to pay the money if there is a good chance that jobs will be available afterwards!!

Yes you do seem to be in a similar situation then! Unfortunatly I think as he isn't qualified in the UK the chances of being able to meet the eligibility criteria for admission in Australia is going to be remarkable difficult. If you send off an application to the WA Law Society they will tell you what units you need to study - you can ask them whether or not there is any way of studying from the UK, I know a University here (ECU maybe...) that does distance law courses. The big issue is going to be the PLT.... have a read up on the college of law website http://www.collaw.edu.au/plt-july/ and maybe send them an enquiry into whether it is possible to study from the UK and also do the work experience element of the course from the UK.

I would also read up on what is required to pass a skills test - whether or not any experience is necessary as a qualified lawyer - if so even if you are eligible for admission in Australia your OH isn't going to get any practical experience as a laywer in the UK.

It is a lot of money to spend, and to be honest we decided that there wasn't enough of a guarantee of a job at the end of it to justify spending so much - you'd be in competition with all the other graduates out there.

I think we misunderstood the paperwork then : ( we thought that the LPC was being assessed against the PLT as it was 2 different forms we had to fill in for assessment. 1 for the LLB and 1 for the LPC? did your hubby had to do this?? When we put our EOI in it looked like we would be ok as his experience was in a similar field! ooh don't know now how stressful!! What your hubby end up studying then? his job does sound like something my OH would do! he loves anything to do with politics!!

Yeah we made a similar mistake, we thought that since he'd done the LPC he wouldn't have to do the PLT (and the LPC is a by far more comprehensive course!) and we did submit both forms and pay $400 to assess both elements, but they refunded $200 and said they couldn't assess the LPC as he wasn't admitted to practice.

If you've already submitted an EOI have you already done a skills assessment? Sorry not sure how EOI's work!

He's studying the CSA Chartered Secretaries Qualification http://www.csaust.com/ which is more governance/corporate based and eventually hopes to work as a Company Secretary/Governance Manager.

thanks so much for all this info!!EOI (Expression of interest) is what you have to do before you can apply for a visa now!!! yes we did the assessment and qualified for a permanent visa not sure if we have this wrong now though!!! as when it asked how many months you worked in that area or similar we filled it in as if his current job (Fee earning legal assistant) was a yes!

I suppose my question is .... are you glad you made to move despite the difficulty? is it worth it and have you got a better lifestyle?

Do you have children? I am more worried because we have a family if we didn't id throw caution to the wind!!!

Ok, I assumed he was applying for a visa under "Solicitor" but I take it this isn't the case? Is Fee Earning Legal Assistant on the SOL List? If not applying for a visa as a solicitor you can ignore my comments about being unable to pass a skills assessment as it looks like you've already done this! So I guess it really is a decision once you get out here as to whether it's worth persuing the legal qualifications, it's an expensive gamble but you'll be better placed once you're here to get a feel for whether it's something that needs to be done or not.

We are glad we made the move, although it's not been without it's trials and because of OH not working for so long and still not in a perm job he doesn't feel settled and does still want to return to England. We didn't come original as a permanent move though, we came on WHV's and intended to leave after the year, but got the opportunity to stay as I was sponsored for PR so we took it. We always said we'd stay to get our citizenship and then see how we feel. Lifestyle wise I'd say it's sort of the same, we do similar things here (such as eating out, weekends away, comedy shows, theatre when we can) but also different things such as surfing, rock climbing, kyacking, off-roading which we enjoy. I love the hot weather, OH isn't so fussed by it, but it does make a difference to how much time you spend outside!

We don't have children so I don't know what it's like to consider them as well I'm afraid, although I'm sure they'll be along in the next few years and then we'll be the reverse - trying to decide whether to return to the UK or not!!

hiya again he is classed as a legal executive as he also has completed the (Institute of Legal Executives) ILEX course as well as the LPC. The legal executive is on the SOL list we can apply for a 190 visa. Basically a 'Legal Executive' is anybody practicing law that's qualified by ILEX but they have to work under the supervision of a Solicitor and are unable to work for themselves. He did this course on purpose to give him a back up if he couldn't get a TC! Its a nightmare profession really so hard across the world!!

I hope you are happy over there and that you OH enjoys his career its a shame after paying all that LPC money out that he cant get a lawyers role!!!!

Hi Everyone

I thought it might help if I share my experience with you guys.

I am a solicitor (qualified England) with 11 years PQE (I'm a commercial, contracts and corporate advisor). The WA legal practice board assessed my qualifications and experience and I have to re-sit 3 academic subjects (5 units) and 2 practical subjects. I'm starting this in February at ECU on a distance learning basis so will be able to work full time. If my current study plan works out I'll be admitted at the end of 2015 but my licence will be restricted (I'll have to be supervised) for a further 12 months. All in my studying will cost c$12k in fees plus books (which are VERY expensive - I've only bought 2 so far at the cost of $250).

We've been here for 5 months and I've been job hunting all this time. I am still unemployed. It is a VERY tough legal market here at the moment. In summary the market over-expanded in the mining boom which means that roles are few and far between now - indeed a lot of firms have recruitment freezes on and are making redundancies. Sorry this probably isn't the news you wanted to hear but its the reality of the legal market at the moment. That said, things are starting to pick up and I've noted the number of adverts is increasing and you may have better luck than me.

I'm happy to chat more about this if you wanted any more info.

Tree

Hi. I am 4 years PQE in Commercial Litigation and am just finalising the paperwork to send to the WA legal practice board for assessment. It's been a nightmare trying to get my university to provide module information from 10 years ago! Anyone else had this problem?

As I will have to undertake a few Australian modules before I can practice in WA and apply for a 189 visa as a solicitor, I was thinking of applying for a student visa so that I can do the modules in Perth whilst looking for jobs. Once I have completed the modules I was then hoping to apply for the 189 Visa whilst in Perth. Has anyone else tried this?

Tree - is this what you have done?

Alternatively, it appears that the College of Law (Australian one) allows you to study the necessary law modules online whilst still in the UK. But you have to pay as an international student. Has anyone else done this from the UK? Either way it looks like an expensive process but I guess it makes sure you definitely want to make the move!

Hi. I am 4 years PQE in Commercial Litigation and am just finalising the paperwork to send to the WA legal practice board for assessment. It's been a nightmare trying to get my university to provide module information from 10 years ago! Anyone else had this problem?

 

As I will have to undertake a few Australian modules before I can practice in WA and apply for a 189 visa as a solicitor, I was thinking of applying for a student visa so that I can do the modules in Perth whilst looking for jobs. Once I have completed the modules I was then hoping to apply for the 189 Visa whilst in Perth. Has anyone else tried this?

 

Tree - is this what you have done?

 

Alternatively, it appears that the College of Law (Australian one) allows you to study the necessary law modules online whilst still in the UK. But you have to pay as an international student. Has anyone else done this from the UK? Either way it looks like an expensive process but I guess it makes sure you definitely want to make the move!

Hi There

I hear your pain on the paperwork for the LPBWA - I never managed to get my subject/module list from my uni but I did get a detailed breakdown of my grades. I used the titles from that, together with the online description of the current syllabus for the course, to identify the topics I studied and so piece it all together. A total nightmare!

My route to Perth was different to your proposed one. At the time of our application the occupaiton of solicitor wasn't on the "wanted" list. My OH's occupation was. So we submitted our application on the basis of his trade. We now both have Permanent Residency visas, his for his trade and me because I am his de facto "wife" (don't get me started on the paperwork to prove that one!)

I am studying at ECU. Even though I live in Perth I am still studying "on line" so I don't need to attend uni for lectures. There are people on my course who are studying from Scotland, Singapore and some other countries too. The point I'm making is your could apply to be an "off campus" student at ECU if you wanted and study from the UK (once you've got your assessment from LPBWA that is). Unless you are in Perth as a permanent resident I think you would have to pay International Fees anyway (I think they are dictated by visa status not location) but its probably best to ask the unis about that.

One word of warning re timing. The "school" year here runs from January to December. Semester 1 for University starts in February and Semester 2 in July. For my course 2 of my subjects involved 2 units (part 1 and part 2). You can't study part 2 until you have studied part 1. So, even if you get your assessment back before July of this year you may find that you can't actually start your studies until February next. I only found this out when I arrived - very frustrating. The same doesn't apply to the College of Law topics, they are self-directed study (rather than tied to a semester system) so this gives a little more freedom.

Just to clarify:

I am studying 3 subjects (5 units) at university - they are the "academic" subjects that the LPBWA required me to study. I am studying these online with Edith Cowan University in WA. These subjects were not available to study at the College of Law.

I am also studying 2 subjects (2 units) at the College of Law - they are the "practical" subjects (akin to the LPC) that LPBWA required me to study. Again I am studying online.

You are likely to find that the LPBWA will require you to study BOTH academic (uni) and practical (college of law) subjects.

Hope this helps.

Tree

PS - in other news, I have (finally) got a job! I start next week. Sadly its non-legal but it is part time so fits in with my studies so all good : )

Thank you so much! Really helpful to talk to someone who has/is doing it. I didn't realise about the School year issue - we were hoping to come in September...may have to rethink timings once I hear back from the lpbwa.

Unfortunately my husband isn't on the SOL so we were hoping to come in on the back of me. But then we found out that I have to complete all the extra exams before I can apply for 189 visa! So complicated but hopefully it will be worth it!

Congratulations on the new job though! Always nice to have a little break from law anyway

Is the legal job market as tough as the other posts say?

Sorry Tree - just realised it was you who posted how hard the market is so I asked a pretty stupid question in my last post!!

Hi There

 

I hear your pain on the paperwork for the LPBWA - I never managed to get my subject/module list from my uni but I did get a detailed breakdown of my grades. I used the titles from that, together with the online description of the current syllabus for the course, to identify the topics I studied and so piece it all together. A total nightmare!

 

My route to Perth was different to your proposed one. At the time of our application the occupaiton of solicitor wasn't on the "wanted" list. My OH's occupation was. So we submitted our application on the basis of his trade. We now both have Permanent Residency visas, his for his trade and me because I am his de facto "wife" (don't get me started on the paperwork to prove that one!)

 

I am studying at ECU. Even though I live in Perth I am still studying "on line" so I don't need to attend uni for lectures. There are people on my course who are studying from Scotland, Singapore and some other countries too. The point I'm making is your could apply to be an "off campus" student at ECU if you wanted and study from the UK (once you've got your assessment from LPBWA that is). Unless you are in Perth as a permanent resident I think you would have to pay International Fees anyway (I think they are dictated by visa status not location) but its probably best to ask the unis about that.

 

One word of warning re timing. The "school" year here runs from January to December. Semester 1 for University starts in February and Semester 2 in July. For my course 2 of my subjects involved 2 units (part 1 and part 2). You can't study part 2 until you have studied part 1. So, even if you get your assessment back before July of this year you may find that you can't actually start your studies until February next. I only found this out when I arrived - very frustrating. The same doesn't apply to the College of Law topics, they are self-directed study (rather than tied to a semester system) so this gives a little more freedom.

 

Just to clarify:

 

I am studying 3 subjects (5 units) at university - they are the "academic" subjects that the LPBWA required me to study. I am studying these online with Edith Cowan University in WA. These subjects were not available to study at the College of Law.

I am also studying 2 subjects (2 units) at the College of Law - they are the "practical" subjects (akin to the LPC) that LPBWA required me to study. Again I am studying online.

 

You are likely to find that the LPBWA will require you to study BOTH academic (uni) and practical (college of law) subjects.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Tree

 

PS - in other news, I have (finally) got a job! I start next week. Sadly its non-legal but it is part time so fits in with my studies so all good : )

congratulations with the job if you don't mind me asking what job have you managed to secure?

Hi, I have a couple of questions.

It seems a UK solicitor requires a 'positive skills assessment' to apply for a visa. However it seems impossible to achieve a 'positive assessment' without being admitted. What is the best route to take once I'm told which modules I'll need to complete? Would I be right in thinking perhaps a student visa and then study full time in Oz? Also how quickly would I be able to get through these modules if I was to study full time? Many thanks in anticipation.

Gingernoodles, I am a couple of months behind you. Been told by LPBWA that I will get my skills assessment back by mid July. Did you decide which route to go down / i.e. student visa?

Gingernoodles, I am a couple of months behind you. Been told by LPBWA that I will get my skills assessment back by mid July. Did you decide which route to go down / i.e. student visa?

Just been told by LPBWA that I must do the following subjects:

Academic: Constitutional Law and Company

Practical: Trust & office accounting and Ethics & Professional Responsibility

Tree, I found your post really helpful and will now look into options re study - i.e. UK or in Perth.

What is frustrating is that I can't start the academic stage if I study at ECU (like you) until Feb 15, and whilst I can complete the academic and practical concurrently, I can't say do the practical now at the COL (which is not semester dependent) and then start the academic exams in February 2015, so effectively 7 months of waiting to study, and I am 44 at Christmas!

Anyone any idea how quickly I can do the subjects on the basis that I can study full time and do all 4 subject in one go, or is that a tall order? My little boy would start school full time in Perth in February 2015 so my dilemma is do I move there and start studying without PR, or do I stay here and say realistically move out in 12 months after I have (hopefully) passed the exams / been admitted and then got PR?

It's a tricky one - I would be giving up a good job here with no ultimate guarantee of PR! Does not seem fair that most of the other occupations can do any further training once they are in Australia having been granted PR before they go.

Hi! Sorry for the delayed! I haven't been on here for a while. I got my assessment back in may which confirmed I have to do 6 modules to qualify.

Anyway, once I received the assessment I contacted a number of universities (throughout Australia) about doing the modules on a student visa or doing them from the UK. However, I was eventually informed by one uni that as the modules I need to do would not form a recognised full time course I would not be able to enter Australia on a student visa to do the modules. So I would either need to get sponsored by a australian law firm or undertake the modules online in the UK whilst working full time.

Anyone else find this?

In light of the above difficulties we have made the decision that re qualifying is too costly and too big a risk. I have a great job in UK and we only wanted to live abroad for a couple of years whilst the children are pre- school age. A nice idea and I am glad I went through the process as we would have always looked back and said "what if...!" Good luck to anyone else who can do it! WA is an amazing place.