Mining Careers!!!

[glenvin]

Hi all

Myself and my husband both work on the mines and yes it is a very difficult area to enter into. In saying that if you have patience, tenacity and don't take no for an answer and don't give up at the first few rejections it can be done. My husband works as a OH&S Advisor and I am a dump truck operator but that wasn't our jobs when we moved over to Perth nearly 12 years ago. We moved out on a business visa and I wont go into what is a very long story but then had to change to a 457 and my husband went back to his trade as a welder which he hadn't done for 20 years and I gained employment in office work. My husband then studied for a Cert IV in OH&S and gained employment with a civil contractor. Through working with the civil contractor on various mine site he then studied for his Training and Assessing certificate and he now works on various Rio Tinto projects throughout WA. I on the other hand went down a completely different route, I took a mining course at the cost of approx $2000 and had dump truck and loader training. Thinking this would be enough to get me into mining I then applied for jobs. I made a spreadsheet so I could follow what I had applied for and what responses I got back. I applied for 162 dump truck vacancies and received only negative responses stating they wanted someone with 2 years experience. Not being one to give up and hating the word NO I then took a different route and applied to civil contractors asking for work and even offering to be trained up for no wages. I received a reply from a small contracting company who were willing to train me and pay me and I went on from there. Just let me be completely honest it was no smooth sailing as I encountered a lot of prejudice, firstly for being a woman in a man's game (yes it does still exist) and secondly believe it or not for being a pom. Sometimes it was that bad I felt like I wanted to give up but I had a great husband behind me encouraging me to keep going and don't let the bullies win, so for 2 years I kept my head down and just learnt everything I could. I now work on a mine site with a fantastic bunch of guy's ( and girls) and can honestly say at the age of 53 ( a very young 53 I may add ha ha) I am happier in this job than I have ever been in my life. So everyone I hope I haven't bored you with my story but hope that you realise nothing comes easy but with hard work and a never give up attitude you can get what you want

[verystormy]

A lot is going to depend on thr iron ore price in the next 6 months. But, its not going to be pretty. A couple of days ago Tom Price who is one of the leading analysts forecast the price would drop to $70 per tonne. Yesterday, one of the analysts for China came out with $50. At $70 it closes every iron ore mine except for Rio and BHP, though several of there operations would be negative. At $50 or even much below $60 it closes most of Rio and BHP. Everyone agrees a major correction is coming, just nobody is certain how big. Most of the mid tier miners are in negative at $90.

 

The other side is non ferrous / base metals such as copper and nickel. If iron ore goes you can expect these both to plummet. Nickel, has a habbit of going first and is for that reason known as the Bell Weather mineral. It is now 12% down this month and dropping.

 

As i have mentioned before, the industry, particularly in WA, is facing a perfect storm as a range of factors come into play. One being price, another the high costs and a third being external costs such as the carbon tax.

 

The smaller companies have the issue that they rely on a significant amount of debt to survive as exploring and opening a mine is VERY expensive - my exploration team will this year spend $24 million. But at the moment raising money on the markets is impossible and banks are not interested. Then the bigger miners are facing big profit hits - BHP and Rio both reported losses recently. They have a duty to shareholders to maximise profit for return and so are going to be do significant cost cutting.

 

Its going to be a very bumpy ride this year along the lines of the industry in the early 1990's

[StraighttothePoint]

VS if I am reading your latest post correctly then WA could be shot or near shot in the not too distant future? Perth / WA is built on, and dependant on, the resources sector. Indeed it is the resources sector mainly in WA, and to some extent Queensland that is currently propping up the Australian economy. If it suffers badly in WA, as you suggest, it could hit every other job sector proportionally because it would create a major down turn. No mines, no FIFO's, no FIFO's then no need for new housing, less luxury good sold and so on and so on right down to the guy in the corner shop tring to sell his bottle of juice.

 

If your analysis is close to be being right, and the problems hit within the next to 12 to 18 months, then it will hit us all. Are you convinced it is looking this bad or is it just market jitters? If the ore problem is this bad,and others look like following, then if I was sitting in the UK now just about to come out, or thinking about either getting a visa and coming out, then I would be a tad worried on reading your post.

 

Mind you your comments sort of tie in with what the government is up to at the moment in terms of trying to end certain types of visas and them looking at the immigration issue as a whole. If the Australian economy dips across the board and not just in some Eastern States, as it is at the moment, then the government would need to be careful, start to plan for the future and include in that a view that says, "we need to look after our own".

 

It would be interesting if there were any economists out there who hold similar views to Very Stormy or ones that can argue a different scenario. One thing that Perth is known for is peaks and troughs in terms of economic stability and so maybe we are heading for the big dip? Interesting though that Captain Colin (Barnet) and Major Mark (MacGowan) still say we are in for the long haul in terms of growth, mind you what do the two most senior politicians in WA know!!

[verystormy]

Unfortunatly, yes, i can see some issues for Oz generally and WA and QLD is particular.

 

It isnt that surprising as those of us in the industry are well aware of the cyclic nature of it. It always has been a very boom bust industry. The main issue with Oz that is going to cause the problem is the cost of mining here compared to competitor countries. So, a major fall in iron ore price will hurt everybody world wide, but it will be hardest felt where the cost is highest.

 

Gold mining is a good annalogy. When i checked the gold price at 4am this morning, it was at US$1576. Now, that is historically still a very good price, but that is getting into the realms of serious worry for Oz miners, a lot of whom have cash costs close to the $1500 level. If it continues south, all the gold miners in the world, start to tighten the purse strings a little, but a mine in Africa producing at $600 has a lot more room to move. My own mine have already sent a site wide memo pointing out that we need to save money and that costs savings will be introduced and that currently labour accounts for 50% of our cost. A very big shot across the bows.

 

But for the Oz economy, it is very much going to depend on what the iron ore price does. Everyone knows that it will slide starting next month, but it is going to be about how big that slide is.

[kaz60]

why you had so big problems with the 457 visa ? and is it now bad to come over with the 457 visa my hubby is a qualified plasterer and we would like to come out to australia we dont mind where but our favourt spot would have being perth .could you put as some light in the dark of that a bad plan is for as we are only a couple with 2 dogs no children to look after woul it be possible or is that stupid from as to think that it would work please give as advice kaz

[StraighttothePoint]

why you had so big problems with the 457 visa ? and is it now bad to come over with the 457 visa my hubby is a qualified plasterer and we would like to come out to australia we dont mind where but our favourt spot would have being perth .could you put as some light in the dark of that a bad plan is for as we are only a couple with 2 dogs no children to look after woul it be possible or is that stupid from as to think that it would work please give as advice kaz

 

The problem with the 457 visa is that employers in Australia have been bacsically manipulating the system (rorting as it is called here) and either creating jobs that do not exist or dressing up jobs to make them better than they are both to get people into the country or to get them in and sub contract their labour onto another employer. The Unions are onto it and this has forced the government to start looking at the issue. Now that the government has begun looking at it the oppoistion is beginning to start murmours about immigration in general because in their view incomers are taking Australians jobs.

 

You can be sure that if the politicians are now involved that they will make changes to some of the visa types just to make sure they are seen be doing something. When that happens they will no doubt make mistakes in some people's eyes and also it will effect some overseas people as it will hit their applications and/or plan for application. This is always the way with government policy.

 

If you add this issue and any potential outcomes into the very possible mining cutbacks then Perth will take a hit and probably a bigger hit than other cities. There are of course other views that say why hurt the city that lays the golden egg for the rest of the country? That is true but never trust a politician to get it right especially in an election year. Have a read of these and even Google 457 Visa for more.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2013/s3703969.htm

 

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3705579.htm

 

As for coming over on a 457 visa or any visa for that matter is it not just a case of working out the best option based on current information from the Visa website and making a decision and just going with that? Yes there are pending problems for 457's in the future but everyone just needs to make up their own minds what to do and having as much information as possible, and making your own assessment, is all you can do.

 

In your case I am not so sure that you are that different from the thousands of others who are thinking of coming to Perth albeit you have two dogs. They will cost you money, and a lot of it by all accounts, but if you want to bring them that is up to you. If you can get here on a skilled visa, and your husband has a trade, then all he is up against is all the other plasterers looking for work just like anywhere else I suppose. If you get here via a sponsored type visa then I suppose that is better for obvious reasons.

 

What is against him here if he comes in on a non sponsored visa, I guess, is that if he has no experience in Oz then he may not be first choice for a job vacancy, the new home construction sector may dip due to other economic factors and also work may only be in certain parts of the city and/or state and that affects your day to day running costs. Immigration for many people is a gamble and some people are happy to give it a go, others worry about it and others just worry too much.

 

Only you guys can decide what to do because it is only you that knows how much cash you have to use to get here, to get set up when you arrive and to get you through to the point you get jobs. This is Australia and the mentality here has always been "give it a go". UK on the otherhand has never been that type of place, and more downbeat, and so people's confidence in many cases tends to suffer from living in that environmnet. Nope only way is to read as much as you can, gather as much relevant information as you can, create your own budget based on current costs and then decide one way or another to do it or not. And remember what Del Boy always used to say in Fools and Horses, "He who dares Rodney, he who dares.....".

Edited March 6, 2013 by StraighttothePoint

[StraighttothePoint]

Unfortunatly, yes, i can see some issues for Oz generally and WA and QLD is particular.

 

It isnt that surprising as those of us in the industry are well aware of the cyclic nature of it. It always has been a very boom bust industry. The main issue with Oz that is going to cause the problem is the cost of mining here compared to competitor countries. So, a major fall in iron ore price will hurt everybody world wide, but it will be hardest felt where the cost is highest.

 

Gold mining is a good annalogy. When i checked the gold price at 4am this morning, it was at US$1576. Now, that is historically still a very good price, but that is getting into the realms of serious worry for Oz miners, a lot of whom have cash costs close to the $1500 level. If it continues south, all the gold miners in the world, start to tighten the purse strings a little, but a mine in Africa producing at $600 has a lot more room to move. My own mine have already sent a site wide memo pointing out that we need to save money and that costs savings will be introduced and that currently labour accounts for 50% of our cost. A very big shot across the bows.

 

But for the Oz economy, it is very much going to depend on what the iron ore price does. Everyone knows that it will slide starting next month, but it is going to be about how big that slide is.

 

I tend to agree with you in terms of mining and the key will be when a slide starts how far will Perth fall? We all seem to depend on the holes in the ground and if those holes do not get bigger, deeper and wider then boy will we feel it. What about gas? Is that not the States next big saving grace?

[kaz60]

hello i am trying to get a 457 visa and went trough numeres pages and have now deceidet that we go to the expo this month and find out our delf we have two dogs and they have to come with as and we dont know what it cost jet but we have nobody where they cant stay here in the UK but we will do anything to get them with as and end of the month we will go to the expo and find out what is going on from the people ourself would be a good idea to consider for you self of that isnt something for you regards kaz

[StraighttothePoint]

hello i am trying to get a 457 visa and went trough numeres pages and have now deceidet that we go to the expo this month and find out our delf we have two dogs and they have to come with as and we dont know what it cost jet but we have nobody where they cant stay here in the UK but we will do anything to get them with as and end of the month we will go to the expo and find out what is going on from the people ourself would be a good idea to consider for you self of that isnt something for you regards kaz

 

That is best way for you I think. If you cannot work it out for yourself get some advice from the expo. Also according to other posts on this site it is anything between 2000 and 4000 gbp's per dog to bring them over here.

[colinmacl]

Hate to be a killjoy but a 457 is a temporary sponsored visa. If your employer no longer wants you you have 28 days to leave the country or find another sponsor. If you have 2 dogs this could be very difficult. I have seen a number of people on this forum losing their sponsor and panicking to find another or sending everything back home The union had a protest march the other day about these visas and i think they will clamp down on them too and i doubt a plasterer would get sponsored from the UK. The jobs that generally get sponsored from overseas are mining specific ie previous experience or dishwashers and waiters in restaurants!

[verystormy]

I tend to agree with you in terms of mining and the key will be when a slide starts how far will Perth fall? We all seem to depend on the holes in the ground and if those holes do not get bigger, deeper and wider then boy will we feel it. What about gas? Is that not the States next big saving grace?

 

I dont know that much about gas. Other than once a plant is up and running they dont actually employ many people

[elfie]

the 457 ties you to one employer - the one who sponsors you on the 457. if you lose your job through redundancy etc you have 28 days to find another sponsor or leave Australia. its a crap visa a way of getting folks here pretty dam quick. if you hate your job your stuck really. yes it is a transferable visa as long as you can find another employer to take over the sponsorship of the 457 visa. i thini it was about 6 months in and we thought my hubby was going to lose his job. thankfully he didnt hes now moved on to a goldmine site. but nothing wish a 457 is written in stone it gives no security to be honest. <

< lesson learned

[elfie]

oh ps

also if you bring your dogs it will reduce your chance to obtain a rental. please read posts on rental stories on here. it is hard for some to obtain a rental with no children or dogs alone if you do have pets.

:;sigh::

i have a lovely rental and am desparate for a pet but ive been turned down on request and im gutted will be looking else where near to time of lease expiry i think or then again who knows ................................ i do miss 4 paws around but not the hoovering up of the hair!

[StraighttothePoint]

the 457 ties you to one employer - the one who sponsors you on the 457.

 

 

A couple of interesting points on the news today. 30% of the people who come in on a 457 go on and get permanet residency one of the highest coversion rates from all temporary visas issued and also aim of 457 was to attract people to fill skills shortage jobs yet a large percentage coming in earn over $175k per year. The latter point raises the issuse of wether of not the visa is actually filling average wage earning posts and at $175k per annum it does not sound like it given the average Aussie wage is around half that figure. The 457 is a hot political topic at the moment and perhaps what will happen is that there will be either significant changes to the application and appproval process or the issue will just melt away and the pollies will move on and shout at each other over some other issue.

 

Interesting stuff though and as you say being tied to one employer is a big risk. I suspect people in the 30% bracket have possibly, in some cases, just used it to gain entry to Oz and have all along had a hidden agenda of getting another job that attracts permanent residency asap.

[elfie]

A couple of interesting points on the news today. 30% of the people who come in on a 457 go on and get permanet residency one of the highest coversion rates from all temporary visas issued and also aim of 457 was to attract people to fill skills shortage jobs yet a large percentage coming in earn over $175k per year. The latter point raises the issuse of wether of not the visa is actually filling average wage earning posts and at $175k per annum it does not sound like it given the average Aussie wage is around half that figure. The 457 is a hot political topic at the moment and perhaps what will happen is that there will be either significant changes to the application and appproval process or the issue will just melt away and the pollies will move on and shout at each other over some other issue.

 

Interesting stuff though and as you say being tied to one employer is a big risk. I suspect people in the 30% bracket have possibly, in some cases, just used it to gain entry to Oz and have all along had a hidden agenda of getting another job that attracts permanent residency asap.

 

 

My hubby is still with the same sponsor just working on another mine site, that they are contracted to ..........

From our experience with the 457 I hope the visa gets changed to give the holder a bit more security than it presently offers

As I som previous postings of mine you are aware of the pitfalls we have suffered at the hands of the dreaded 457

Yes I think we are an isolated case and not all people experience what we have

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting stuff though and as you say being tied to one employer is a big risk. I suspect people in the 30% bracket have possibly, in some cases, just used it to gain entry to Oz and have all along had a hidden agenda of getting another job that attracts permanent residency asap.

[elfie]

oppps i cocked that reply up by copying and pasting didnt i haha

[colinmacl]

Surely you realised what a 457 Visa is before you came out here? You don't get security because its a work permit for temporary stay. I see people complaining about them all the time and complaining that they sold their house and cant afford to go home etc etc. If you plan to emigrate get PR simple! If you accept a job on a 457 it should be looked on as a 2 year contract that may end early or if it goes well may lead to PR. I think a lot of people come out here on these visas and think they are here for life.

[StraighttothePoint]

Think this thread has put a lot of information out there about the 457 and tend to agree with colinmac that if anyone is going to use it to emigrate then that it does hold a big risk.

 

Possibly this is one reason why the conversion rate of 30% to other visa types and onto PR is so high? Also pretty sure that a lot of folk in that 30% are using this visa type to get here initially and then move onto something else of just to then get lost in the system. No proof to any of that of course but has to possibly be why the government is now all over this visa and is promising to tighten up the rules.

[Rossmoyne]

Unfortunatly, yes, i can see some issues for Oz generally and WA and QLD is particular.

 

It isnt that surprising as those of us in the industry are well aware of the cyclic nature of it. It always has been a very boom bust industry. The main issue with Oz that is going to cause the problem is the cost of mining here compared to competitor countries. So, a major fall in iron ore price will hurt everybody world wide, but it will be hardest felt where the cost is highest.

 

Gold mining is a good annalogy. When i checked the gold price at 4am this morning, it was at US$1576. Now, that is historically still a very good price, but that is getting into the realms of serious worry for Oz miners, a lot of whom have cash costs close to the $1500 level. If it continues south, all the gold miners in the world, start to tighten the purse strings a little, but a mine in Africa producing at $600 has a lot more room to move. My own mine have already sent a site wide memo pointing out that we need to save money and that costs savings will be introduced and that currently labour accounts for 50% of our cost. A very big shot across the bows.

 

But for the Oz economy, it is very much going to depend on what the iron ore price does. Everyone knows that it will slide starting next month, but it is going to be about how big that slide is.

 

Verystormy I have watched your very many posts on this subject with interest over the past months and totally agree with your views. My son, until this week, has worked in the mining industry for many years and has over the past year echoed your comments. Son, as of this week, is now working in Perth ""on the tools" again as the drilliing company for whom he has worked for years, has gone to the wall..... like so many other smaller companies that aren't Rio or BHP! Even the big companies are not renewing contracts.... And so we watch the Chinese economy, which will control the price of the Iron Ore.....

[verystormy]

Sorry to hear that. Drilling companies are being hit very hard at the moment. Companies simply don't have the money for exploration. Most of the big iron ore guys have abandoned exploration completely, the juniors can't raise funds and the mid tiers are shifting there work out of Oz. I am off for an interview this morning with a mid size company that has been around in Oz for years but the role is in Tanzania. A lot of companies have dropped there ground in Oz and picked up projects in Africa and Asia as it is too expensive to operate in Oz now.

 

If the iron ore price gets even close to what some are predicting it's going to be a disaster in WA. The slide has started. When I looked yesterday, the spot price was down over 9% and heading south.

[elfie]

Surely you realised what a 457 Visa is before you came out here? You don't get security because its a work permit for temporary stay. I see people complaining about them all the time and complaining that they sold their house and cant afford to go home etc etc. If you plan to emigrate get PR simple! If you accept a job on a 457 it should be looked on as a 2 year contract that may end early or if it goes well may lead to PR. I think a lot of people come out here on these visas and think they are here for life.

 

 

if this is directed at my post

yes we knew what the 457 visa was

no we didnt sell up in the uk still have 2 houses there - not idiotic

we will stay for the length of the visa 4 years maybe less

do not plan on staying for the rest of eternity

its a case of been seen and well go home thank you for an experience not all good not all bad

better now than it was at the beginning of this adventure

dont regret coming here its satisfied a curiosity we have had for years

we wouldnt have up rooted a young family to come here on a 457 - lack of security- as some people have

but then the visa works well in some cases

thank you australia

[happyhosefitter]

My first post on thread so here goes

 

I'm on a 457 visa and have recently had some problems but i think the problems are more to do with the financial state of the company as a whole. The bonus is you still do have rights, the same as an Australian would but that's very little to cling to as you can be out of a job by smoko time here. If you accept the 457 as it is, a temporary visa, that will help you plan accordingly.

 

Basically in WA, from doing some basic internet research, you need a licence/permit/certificate for everything. Some permits taken in the east aren't even good enough for WA so any job you are considering doing should be well researched before hand and its definitely worth while using a good agent.

 

The downturn in the mines is now starting to be felt here more in Perth, especially over the last couple of months. I'm seeing more equipment in yards stood and a few places have upped and disappeared already. The ones that will survive are the ones who have been well established for many years and not built up a business based on borrowing, invoice financing etc (i.e debt), or expanded too quickly and having massive overheads. I believe the company I work for are in this position due to the downturn.

 

Also with the mines being financially attractive for so long, it created a labour shortage in Perth, now that some of these jobs are disappearing people are looking for work locally, maybe their old jobs, to find that they are no longer available to them and more to the point they are now being done by A.N Other on a 457 from another country. If you have a massive mortgage or 2 and your suddenly out of work, who would you blame.

[StraighttothePoint]

If you have a massive mortgage or 2 and your suddenly out of work, who would you blame.

 

Honestly? If I had left a secure job to go to the mines to chase the dollar, took on a massive mortgage or 2 because of that, and then it went belly up? Hopefully I would balme myself because I took the risk in the first place. Not easy to accept I know and much easier to look for somebody else to blame however everyone makes choices and choices usually involve some level of risk.

[Philpom]

The irony of all this downturn is that as a draftsman who is struggling to find work, the best options are back in the UK. The mining boom was good whilst it lasted, but there are now too many people competing for too few jobs, so it's looking like it's time to head where the drafting work is, at least for the time being.

[StraighttothePoint]

The irony of all this downturn is that as a draftsman who is struggling to find work, the best options are back in the UK. The mining boom was good whilst it lasted, but there are now too many people competing for too few jobs, so it's looking like it's time to head where the drafting work is, at least for the time being.

 

 

My mate is a draughtsman, contracts to architects all over the place and works remotely from home. I assume he has certain software and a skillset to allow him to do that though. Is that not an option, i.e. get the work from the UK but sit back in sunny WA and do the work? Or is the rates an issue? Cuts you losses to stay here perhaps?