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Should I come to Perth or stay in the UK?


Nadrim

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I am sorry, but there are zero tax advantages to a 457. I have used a range of big money accountants while I was on one. You will be assessed as a resident if your family are here. No if, no but.

 

Come for the adventure. Do not come for career - there is a good reason why a lot of professional ozzies are in the UK. Do not come for money. You will be worse off financially. Do come for a change. Do recognize that on a 457 you might find yourself going home a month later - all of the political parties are vying for who will be tough on 457 visas at the moment. Hence the recent changes.

 

Sorry everyone for not responding there seems to be quite a few mixed messages here as to whether I should come or not on that salary. My employer will sponsor me for a permanent visa assuming I perform well and in the short term there are still tax advantages even with the LAFHA gone to being on a 457.

 

In the UK my profit on the rent of my house will be covered by my personal allowance and that of my wife. It won't be taxable in Australia. Whereas on a permanent visa it will be taxable at my marginal rate and that of my wife so we'd be worse off.

 

Take the case of being on a permanent visa and losing your job, you may not have to leave the country but you still have to find work.

 

I'd budgeted up to $1000 a week. We don't drink at all. And we'd not eat in the deluxe restaurants in the UK. I'd like to understand the cost of a typical curry or Chinese or Italian for a family meal out?

 

I'm now getting a bit confused to be honest.

 

Where do people see the WA economy going? Is it ok or pear shaped like the UK?

 

Kind regards

 

Nick

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Peanuts how would you describe the work environment? They told me they work hard play hard and have a good work life balance. Many are in the office early and leave at 6 even at partner level to spend time with their family.

 

A 457 visa has a huge short term tax advantage for me at least.

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/money-finance/180478-renting-uk-home-while-oz-457-visa.html

 

see above. I'm in the fortunate position of buying a UK property for £200k which is now worth £700k. This is taking into account an extensive extension and rising prices. I have a relatively low mortgage compared to the house. So at a conservative rent I'd make $2,000 profit a month that would neither be taxed in the UK or Aus. So even on a $1000 a week rent my effective rent would be $500 a week which would be at the level of the average Perth house. So my impression is with that and a $215k salary package I'd be ok.

 

If I become permanent I can sell my UK house and use the equity for a nice house here even with the high Perth house prices. Perth house prices are probably half or less of London house prices.

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Peanuts how would you describe the work environment? They told me they work hard play hard and have a good work life balance. Many are in the office early and leave at 6 even at partner level to spend time with their family.

 

A 457 visa has a huge short term tax advantage for me at least.

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/money-finance/180478-renting-uk-home-while-oz-457-visa.html

 

see above. I'm in the fortunate position of buying a UK property for £200k which is now worth £700k. This is taking into account an extensive extension and rising prices. I have a relatively low mortgage compared to the house. So at a conservative rent I'd make $2,000 profit a month that would neither be taxed in the UK or Aus. So even on a $1000 a week rent my effective rent would be $500 a week which would be at the level of the average Perth house. So my impression is with that and a $215k salary package I'd be ok.

 

If I become permanent I can sell my UK house and use the equity for a nice house here even with the high Perth house prices. Perth house prices are probably half or less of London house prices.

 

I don't work Nadrim, but would say my hubby found it very different not necessarily in a negative way just different , a 'work to live' ethic rather than a 'live to work' ethic , if that makes sense.

 

Pea

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I work with a lot of contractors, paid (handsomely), by the hour. I'm in at 0730 and most arrive around the same time. When I leave at 1530 they usually stay on till 2000. A lot will take Friday off and have a long weekend whereas others are there just for the cash. That's pretty unusual as far as I've experienced; the ED in my last role kept office hours and everyone I've worked with here has had a very healthy attitude towards work and life.

 

You know, if you don't mind me saying, none of us can make your mind up for you. I'm not sure whether this has been a useful exercise for you, your comment about being confused demonstrates that perhaps it has not and we may now be in danger of running in circles a little and this may lead to further confusion. If I were you I'd digest the information and consider it for a few days. You may find after that the answer to your original question is a lot clearer.

 

Should you come to Perth or stay in the UK?

Who knows.

 

Is $215k a good salary?

It's higher than the $160k median.

 

Will it be difficult?

Yes, very, in many different ways.

 

Will we miss family and friends?

Undoubtedly.

 

Is it all about the money?

Not for us, but then I'm not an accountant.

 

Will we enjoy it/have a great life/enjoy the outdoors more/have a better work:life balance?

Only you can say, you're in control

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Where do people see the WA economy going? Is it ok or pear shaped like the UK?

 

Kind regards

 

Nick

 

Just read a report this morning on the construction sector. It is a long way off I know, but predictions are that by 2025 the construction sector in Australia will be growing at 1.3%, down from 4.4% 2005-2012. The same report says that UK growth in the sector will average 2.1% between now and 2025.

 

It sounds to me (and seems sensible) that they will equalise over the next few years...

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This will be last post on this one

 

I think you have to decide for yourself.

 

Do not use forums as a guide ton tax liability. Bit shocking that you are given you are an accountant.

 

The financials has been spelled out in black and white. You CAN NOT afford $1000 a week rent on your income. You will be living in a much cheaper suburb

 

You really are not grasping the 457 visa. Particularly for accountants. There is talk of removing them from the SOL because there are so many unemployed. So, you are not emigrating. You are coming for a short term period of work. Factor that into your children.

 

you and your wife need to be 100% committed to this or forget it - you would be amazed how many marriages this breaks up when there not.

 

From my perspective, you won't be outdoors more than you are in the UK. Do you really think your going to be on the beach when it is 40c? Or on afternoon in the third windiest city in the world?

 

Have you looked at economy? You do know that the WA economy is showing significant problems?

 

What ever you decide I wish you luck. But walk in with your eyes open.

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Verystormy maybe you should check with your accountants. I work in international tax so have a pretty good grasp of tax matters. If you don't believe me look at the ATO references below.

 

 

http://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Tax-return/2013/Supplementary-tax-return/Income-questions-13-24/20---Foreign-source-income-and-foreign-assets-or-property/

 

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/tla2006mn1a2006314/sch1.html

 

They confirm my thinking. With my UK rental income, I have no doubt I can afford the rent of up to $1000 a week. I'm amazed if you are so negative about the place why you are still living there. Also can you decide to close a thread unilaterally when people are only trying to provide useful advice? Hardly friendly to a new member. Is that as I contradicted your advice?

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I'm amazed if you are so negative about the place why you are still living there. Also can you decide to close a thread unilaterally when people are only trying to provide useful advice? Hardly friendly to a new member. Is that as I contradicted your advice?

 

Nads I do not think Very is saying he will close the thread. I read his comments as being this would be his last post on this thread.

 

Porty is spot on though, I would draw breathe, take stock and digest the comments and information you now have. The 457 visa is an issue, as is cost of living, as is the reality of living here versus the perceived lifestyle, as is the employment and working style and so on. It is all a gamble to be honest and so if you don't bet then maybe you need to factor that into the equation as well because a big part of a move like this is a punt.

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I'm amazed if you are so negative about the place why you are still living there. Also can you decide to close a thread unilaterally when people are only trying to provide useful advice? Hardly friendly to a new member. Is that as I contradicted your advice?

 

There are many people stuck in difficult situations, wanting a way out but without the means, flexibility or support to do so. Such circumstance can lead to a pretty toxic existence and a deal of negativity. I don't think this applies to verystormy however and I interpreted his posts as realistic, not necessarily negative and actually pretty helpful.

 

No, verystormy cannot close a thread, I think he was merely stating that he'd tried to help enough, that he would not be able to make any further contribution to helping you.

 

I think this is one of the friendliest forums I am a member of. Please. re-read the posts above, everyone has been trying to help and advise but any indecision that remains with you about your situation is unlikely to be addressed further in this thread. I reiterate that we cannot make the decision for you, yet that is what you seem to be asking for. Working at the level you are suggesting I should imagine one would be used to a great deal of responsibility and the burden of making difficult decisions. I can appreciate you are trying to assess the situation from many angles, weigh up the options, and ensure the approach is objective but there's no hostility here, just realistic advice and guidance.

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Thanks. Well from my perspective I'm going to keep an open mind and use some of your questions on my employer. This opportunity I have at work is really exciting and there are not similar UK opportunities at the moment. I've met similar people in their office and they came from the UK and love it now and made it to partner. And they will sponsor me to perm residence in any event after the 2 years. The question I had really was whether it'd be a struggle financially to live here and I think as long as I feel I'd like the job, Perth and the school I will manage. I didn't mean to be sound touchy or give the impression that I'm looking to have others make a decision for me. I'm very grateful for everyone's advice and hopefully I can post again about my impressions after my week in 18 August.

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Thanks. Well from my perspective I'm going to keep an open mind and use some of your questions on my employer. This opportunity I have at work is really exciting and there are not similar UK opportunities at the moment. I've met similar people in their office and they came from the UK and love it now and made it to partner. And they will sponsor me to perm residence in any event after the 2 years. The question I had really was whether it'd be a struggle financially to live here and I think as long as I feel I'd like the job, Perth and the school I will manage. I didn't mean to be sound touchy or give the impression that I'm looking to have others make a decision for me. I'm very grateful for everyone's advice and hopefully I can post again about my impressions after my week in 18 August.

 

Sounds reasonable and sensible. I would however talk to them about a 186 as if your occupation is on the list and your earnings over the higher rate tax threshold ($180,001), then it should be pretty easy, albeit there is a cost implication. What it would take away, is the risk of your occupation being removed from the CSOL as might be the case if you want to apply for a 186 in two years time (which is the Visa which would give you the PR after two years).

 

When I was looking to make the move, I spoke to people in Perth and they all said he money would be OK. I would be careful with your money and also expect to be worse off, then if/when you are not, it will be a pleasant surprise. Hopefully your wife's spending habits are more under control than mine!!

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Perhaps you can confirm if I'm right on this one? Under the new 457 visa rules after 2 years you go through the temporary residence transition stream if your employer sponsors you. In this case, according to the Australian immigration site

 

"Visa applicants applying through the Temporary Residence Transition stream will not need to have their skills assessed as they are considered to have met the skill requirement based on the time they have spent working on their subclass 457 visa in their nominated occupation for their nominating employer."

 

So if accounting is dropped from the list it makes no difference to me. My main risk is that my employer refuses to sponsor me. That would occur if I had poor performance or they had to make me redundant. Exactly the same thing could happen in my current job except I'd not have to move countries,

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Perhaps you can confirm if I'm right on this one? Under the new 457 visa rules after 2 years you go through the temporary residence transition stream if your employer sponsors you. In this case, according to the Australian immigration site

 

"Visa applicants applying through the Temporary Residence Transition stream will not need to have their skills assessed as they are considered to have met the skill requirement based on the time they have spent working on their subclass 457 visa in their nominated occupation for their nominating employer."

 

So if accounting is dropped from the list it makes no difference to me. My main risk is that my employer refuses to sponsor me. That would occur if I had poor performance or they had to make me redundant. Exactly the same thing could happen in my current job except I'd not have to move countries,

Yes but I am pretty sure that the occupation needs to be on the list at the time of nomination for the TRTS i.e. in two years time. So you wouldn't need the skills assessment, but accountant would need to be on the list. It would be worth checking this out in case I am wrong, as it is possible that the TRTS is treated diffrently to the direct stream.

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You seem to have an answer for everything nadrim so it sounds to me like you know what you want to do re coming or not.

 

however, as stormy pointed out, i am surprised you really think that you will not be taxed on your uk rental income profits in either australia or the uk. There is no way any country in the world would let you get away with that. You will surely pay tax on it, whether in aus or the uk, at some point down the line, once they figure it out.

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however, as stormy pointed out, i am surprised you really think that you will not be taxed on your uk rental income profits in either australia or the uk. There is no way any country in the world would let you get away with that. You will surely pay tax on it, whether in aus or the uk, at some point down the line, once they figure it out.

 

Hmmmm not sure Lozzy. I asked earlier in the thread about where people are taxed when the are on a 457. I always assumed it was in Australia. Is that the case? If so then we all know that when filling in the tax form here we need to declare all forms of income and all assets over $50k. The issue is not just about declaration of income alone though because it will also be down to how much of that total taxable income you can offset by allowable allowances, expenses, other deductions and tax breaks etc. The tax you are then liable for will be based on income less those allowables and in Nadrims case maybe he understands the system better than we do given his occupation.

 

I am not so surprised as not needing to pay tax on some elements of overall income, because everyone should maximise their allowances and tax breaks wherever possible, however I am just interested on where peolple are taxed when on certain visas and also if when in Australia, even only if on a temp visa, where people can class their main residency. Residency and tax are two different things I think but again it will be interesting to hear the views on that as well.

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Just out of interest in the UK if you are a non UK national and have no ties with the UK then you are regarded as non UK domicile. In that case you are only taxed on your UK employment income so rich foreigners can have offshore accounts and properties which are not taxed in the UK. There was an uproar about this in the UK so people have to pay a £30k benefit for this benefit. So it's not worthwhile for the average expat.

 

In the case of Australia on a 457 you get taxed as an Aus resident but you don't get any tax on your overseas investments but will be taxed on your overseas employment income. So with a UK rental its much better to be on a 457.

 

From my understanding there is low risk about your occupation being flagged on the SOL list if you apply for permanent residence on the 457 transition scheme as there's no skills assessment.

 

I am going to get free expat and migration advice and I will confirm this. But look at the links I've posted from the ATO and reputable firms to confirm this.

 

If you have a good rental income this is a big tax concession as it saves 45% tax. It works for my budget and effectively releases equity in my home without selling it.

 

In the long term I can then sell the home and get PR. that's the strategy.

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Thanks that is all clear now and I can see how the plan would work longer term. Being on a 457, earning a good wage in Oz and while still being able to retain the bulk of any rental income from the UK sounds a good position to be in then. Still the issue of earning more than $150k per annum in Oz though, the magic tax and Centrelink figure I think, and how to deal with that...... Sure you will be able to work that out as well :wink:

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You seem to have an answer for everything nadrim so it sounds to me like you know what you want to do re coming or not.

 

however, as stormy pointed out, i am surprised you really think that you will not be taxed on your uk rental income profits in either australia or the uk. There is no way any country in the world would let you get away with that. You will surely pay tax on it, whether in aus or the uk, at some point down the line, once they figure it out.

When I did my research on this, it did stack up with what has been said. i.e. rental income is taxed in the UK, but you get the tax free allowance (x 2 if the house is in joint names). Also being on a 457 means not paying tax on that rental income in Oz. You just need to complete a form for HMRC, so that tax isn't automatically deducted from rent.

 

A friend who has lived abroad for a number of years - including a year in Brisbane - did exactly that, just had to complete a self assessment for HMRC each year.

 

It does seem odd I know - why should someone not living in the UK, get a personal allowance? But it is how the rules currently stand.

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The UK system is odd. Most non resident rich Russians or Chinese can buy several houses in the UK and sell them at a gain with no UK capital gains tax. Whilst a UK investor would pay capital gains at the full capital gains tax rate. Plus with the weak pound London property has been cheap for overseas investors too. So half of London is owned by foreign investors. That's a lot to do with the tax system!

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Yes but doesnt the non domicile rule apply to those who only spend a certain amount of time in the uk per year? I cant remember what it is but if you are present in the uk for more than the specified period of time, then the non dom rule wont apply and you will be due to pay tax like everyone else.

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Hi Nadrim,

 

You appear to have a good life-style in the Uk and seem very close to family and your parents. I think you are giving up a lot to make the move and I wouldn't do it. If myself and my husband had been on great UK salaries I don't think we would have made the move to New Zealand (and on-wards to Perth)

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Hi Nadrim,

 

You appear to have a good life-style in the Uk and seem very close to family and your parents. I think you are giving up a lot to make the move and I wouldn't do it. If myself and my husband had been on great UK salaries I don't think we would have made the move to New Zealand (and on-wards to Perth)

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There are three areas of tax residence in UK, residence, ordinary residence and domicile. A foreign multinational will always be non UK domiciled even if they become resident and ordinarily resident in the UK. Plus I got it wrong they can go 7 years without any tax on their overseas investments and foreign employment income if they work in the UK and overseas in separate roles. We have one very generous system for expats!

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There are three areas of tax residence in UK, residence, ordinary residence and domicile. A foreign multinational will always be non UK domiciled even if they become resident and ordinarily resident in the UK. Plus I got it wrong they can go 7 years without any tax on their overseas investments and foreign employment income if they work in the UK and overseas in separate roles. We have one very generous system for expats!
And if you look well into the future, when you draw your UK age pension, if gets frozen if you are out of the country, at the rate the it was when you first started to draw it...
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