The Great 457 Debate

[Peata Whyted]

I thought I would start this thread specifically for people coming out, or considering coming out, on 457 visas. I have seen a number of posts surrounding the downsides of holding a 457, around how they are temporary, and may be subject to school fees etc. in 2015.

 

What I would like to see PP members own experiences of 457 visas, good and bad, so newbies like myself can make informed decisions on what the pros and cons are.

 

From my position, we were not considering a move to Perth until I was offered a position with my current employer over there. If all goes well, they have offered to put us through our PR too, so for us it's a means to an end.

 

Just interested in other's stories, experiences and input into what could be a good and informative discussion.

 

Pete.

[Lou8670]

We were recommended going on a 457 last year but decided against it. It was the best decision for us as we have 3 children so we would have been stung with the new charges to 457s and I'm not sure whether we could have avoided paying them even if they were at private school. Our friend, who recommended the 457, is a recruitment agent in Perth, herself on a 457. She was made redundant in October last year and thought she may have to return to the UK. Luckily it was after they changed the time you had to find another job from 28 days to 90 days and she found another job in time. I don't think her advise would be the same now. However, I think it depends on individual circumstances and it's a personal choice and for many a means to an end of their employer will sponsor pr.

[SusanFrako]

We are coming over on my husbands 457 visa in May. He has worked for the company for 3 years, having been transferred to their Perth office 12 months ago hence the move over. I understand all the limitations of the visa as you mention, however I think they quite often get a bad rep on here. Everyone is different, however I feel much more secure moving over knowing that we have a good job behind us, sponsoring us. We will apply for PR when we get there whether that be employer sponsored (hope so!) or not, but appreciate that this is not a given and we may well end up back in the UK at some point. I am ok with that possibility. I think as long as you understand the limitations of the temporary visa then go for it. For us its definitely a cheaper way to come live in Aus for a while and see if we like it.

 

 

I thought I would start this thread specifically for people coming out, or considering coming out, on 457 visas. I have seen a number of posts surrounding the downsides of holding a 457, around how they are temporary, and may be subject to school fees etc. in 2015.

 

What I would like to see PP members own experiences of 457 visas, good and bad, so newbies like myself can make informed decisions on what the pros and cons are.

 

From my position, we were not considering a move to Perth until I was offered a position with my current employer over there. If all goes well, they have offered to put us through our PR too, so for us it's a means to an end.

 

Just interested in other's stories, experiences and input into what could be a good and informative discussion.

 

Pete.

[Daveakaginge]

We are coming over on my husbands 457 visa in May. He has worked for the company for 3 years, having been transferred to their Perth office 12 months ago hence the move over. I understand all the limitations of the visa as you mention, however I think they quite often get a bad rep on here. Everyone is different, however I feel much more secure moving over knowing that we have a good job behind us, sponsoring us. We will apply for PR when we get there whether that be employer sponsored (hope so!) or not, but appreciate that this is not a given and we may well end up back in the UK at some point. I am ok with that possibility. I think as long as you understand the limitations of the temporary visa then go for it. For us its definitely a cheaper way to come live in Aus for a while and see if we like it.

I think the few words in bold, say it all. Come over with a good company, you can sleep easy, come with Micky Mouse enterprises, sleep with a return ticket under your pillow.

[SusanFrako]

I think the few words in bold, say it all. Come over with a good company, you can sleep easy, come with Micky Mouse enterprises, sleep with a return ticket under your pillow.

 

This is very true! Thankfully he's worked for them for long enough to know which one they are Good point tho.

[mrsmen]

We have come over to Melbourne on a 457 through my husbands work we are relocating to Perth with the same company next week, we have found our employer to be supportive and accommodating on every level since we arrived. Once we were here people said oh no you are on a 457! i thought oh no what have we done but for us its not an issue we know we will get sponsored for pr and continue on our journey. We haven't sold our house back home and still feel we have one foot in and one foot out at the moment but that will change when we get pr and sell up, good luck with your move.

[verystormy]

First the good. We came on a 457 and went on to get PR and are now citizens.

 

Then the bad. We came sponsored by a major mining company after I was headhunted in the UK. They were desperate to get us here and paid for everything including staying in a stunning hotel in Sydney when we arrived - even the bar tab was on them. Def not a Mickey mouse company. However, a month after we arrived the lead and zinc price tanked and I was on my first break after a two week stint in the field to get a call to say my entire team except for myself and another 457 holder were being made redundant immediate and they could only keep us on for a limited time while we tried to find another employer.

 

We did. I went to work for one of the worlds biggest gold miners with an office in Perth. The first two years were hell as there were repeated threats of redundancy. Fortunately I get company sponsored PR. Since then they have made a lot of redundancies and a lot of 457 holders have found themselves back in the UK.

 

In my time on the forum and speaking to friends, I have witnessed a huge amount of 457 holders be forced to return to the UK.

 

I waved goodbye to a couple of mates at Christmas who could not even apply for PR once they were made redundant as the role is now schedule 2 on the WA list. I have seen people for whom their occupation has disappeared entirely while on a 457.

 

So, that is why I am very cautious about the 457 particularly when it is a family coming on it.

 

I have seen people transfer with their company on a 457 and it has still been a disaster as the Oz office is nothing like the UK office and they hate it, or the Oz office takes a downturn and they have to be let go, but the UK office has already backfilled their job. So they land back in the UK with no job, and nothing - not even redundancy as they had a new contract once in Oz.

[portlaunay]

We came on my wife's 457.

She works in a very specialised industry where there really are no big companies. The organisation she works for has just four full time staff and despite being the most senior member of the team, she earns less than the average WA wage.

We understand the risk involved in the 457 but we don't see working for a small employer as a handicap. In fact my wife has built a close relationship with the owner who values her direction and recognises the potential for growth and diversification over the long term.

 

If the business had not been able to provide security we would never have been able to stay, there's no other company in WA and only one other in Australia that would have need of my wife's skills.

 

There's something to be said for not having any money, we've never really had any so it's not a big deal for us. If it cost us £20k to get here and it hadn't worked out, well so what, it was a great ride while it lasted.

 

The company is now sponsoring our PR so we hope that goes through okay and we stay.

 

The bottom line for us is that we would not have ever got here without the 457 and so far it's been pretty good. PR will give us added security but we've always thought of this as something of a busman's holiday.

[Daveakaginge]

First the good. We came on a 457 and went on to get PR and are now citizens.

 

Then the bad. We came sponsored by a major mining company after I was headhunted in the UK. They were desperate to get us here and paid for everything including staying in a stunning hotel in Sydney when we arrived - even the bar tab was on them. Def not a Mickey mouse company. However, a month after we arrived the lead and zinc price tanked and I was on my first break after a two week stint in the field to get a call to say my entire team except for myself and another 457 holder were being made redundant immediate and they could only keep us on for a limited time while we tried to find another employer.

 

We did. I went to work for one of the worlds biggest gold miners with an office in Perth. The first two years were hell as there were repeated threats of redundancy. Fortunately I get company sponsored PR. Since then they have made a lot of redundancies and a lot of 457 holders have found themselves back in the UK.

 

In my time on the forum and speaking to friends, I have witnessed a huge amount of 457 holders be forced to return to the UK.

 

I waved goodbye to a couple of mates at Christmas who could not even apply for PR once they were made redundant as the role is now schedule 2 on the WA list. I have seen people for whom their occupation has disappeared entirely while on a 457.

 

So, that is why I am very cautious about the 457 particularly when it is a family coming on it.

 

I have seen people transfer with their company on a 457 and it has still been a disaster as the Oz office is nothing like the UK office and they hate it, or the Oz office takes a downturn and they have to be let go, but the UK office has already backfilled their job. So they land back in the UK with no job, and nothing - not even redundancy as they had a new contract once in Oz.

 

I understand all of the above, truly, I do. We are here on my wife's 457, it is with a massive 'banking' company, and she was also headhunted. That is where the similarity ends, we are realistic in our approach to this given chance, and know that worse case scenario, we will be of back to the UK in another 3.5 years, the bonus for us, would be a rollover, of which there is every chance. She is in her 50's, I have just turned 60, so PR is out of the question (or is it?), so we are looking at the 189 route, or praying our youngsters follow us out here, and we piggy back them. We know of another 457er, who mirrors us in every way, and is now applying for 'PR', at the end of the day, if you are in demand, then doors may open that you thought were firmly shut. We will just enjoy ourselves for the moment, we move into our own place in a couple of weeks, a place the likes, we could never afford back in the UK, who knows, I may end up buried out here

[Guest guest9824]

I understand all of the above, truly, I do. We are here on my wife's 457, it is with a massive 'banking' company, and she was also headhunted. That is where the similarity ends, we are realistic in our approach to this given chance, and know that worse case scenario, we will be of back to the UK in another 3.5 years, the bonus for us, would be a rollover, of which there is every chance. She is in her 50's, I have just turned 60, so PR is out of the question (or is it?), so we are looking at the 189 route, or praying our youngsters follow us out here, and we piggy back them. We know of another 457er, who mirrors us in every way, and is now applying for 'PR', at the end of the day, if you are in demand, then doors may open that you thought were firmly shut. We will just enjoy ourselves for the moment, we move into our own place in a couple of weeks, a place the likes, we could never afford back in the UK, who knows, I may end up buried out here

 

Great post Dave, not dissimilar to us, and glad that you clarified this visa can and does get rolled over sometimes. We came on this visa, never thinking it was temporary, it was not sold to us like that, we got positive promises from the start and we would not be here if it wasn't for this visa, we were relocated here, paid for, pr promised and paid for now citizens. A big organisation which many came with and are still here albeit one couple who went back for personal reasons, the only ones we know of that are not now citizens. Granted this was 6 years ago and rules have been tightened, to protect the Aussie workforce, but just wanted to give our side of the story to balance things out.

[verystormy]

Yep Dave, I would never say do not do the 457. I am always just cautious because of its limitations and so many think that a 457 means they are emigrating. There not.

 

I was headhunted because I am one of only a handful of people in the world who are experts at finding lead / zinc deposits. But that only matters when that is required! I used to have the odd beer with a guy who was on a 457 as one of the top 5 experts in the world on the electronics of a 747 airliner and was working for Qantas. I was wondering today if he has a job or not or a visa if he hasn't gained PR.

[Peata Whyted]

Thanks for your responses guys, it is comforting to know a lot of the regular posters on this forum originally came out on a 457. Your story VS is particularly poignant, as it seems you went through the mill a bit on your 457. I suppose you hit the nail on the head, I don't think you can say 'we are emigrating' on a 457, I think the people who approach it as a working holiday ( working for me, holiday for Jo ) and see where they stand in a few years are being realistic. I suppose the problems come when your job disappears and you do not want to leave. Luckily for us, the contract I am being brought out to work on, is secure, and we have a number of major contracts in Perth on the horizon. Fingers crossed.

 

Pete & Jo.

[OnOurWay]

We are coming out on 457s, basically because we have to, it's our only choice. I understand the arguments against this route, but for us and many others it's the difference between coming and not coming.

There is one big advantage though to a 457 as far as I can see, and that's you must have employment to go to. Now, no job is secure so there are huge risks attached. I mention this because alot of the stories I've read on here about people packing up and going back to UK are from people who could not find work in Australia. Now, with no job to go to I'm assuming the PR was granted. I guess that PR with a job to go is the best option, but with at least one of the family with a job to go to you don't run out of cash in a few months.

Edited February 27, 2014 by OnOurWay

[Peata Whyted]

We are coming out on 457s, basically because we have to, it's our only choice. I understand the arguments against this route, but for us and many others it's the difference between coming and not coming.

There is one big advantage though to a 457 as far as I can see, and that's you must have employment to go to. Now, no job is secure so there are huge risks attached. I mention this because alot of the stories I've read on here about people packing up and going back to UK are from people who could find work in Australia. Now, with no job to go to I'm assuming the PR was granted. I guess that PR with a job to go is the best option, but with at least one of the family with a job to go to you don't run out of cash in a few months.

 

I totally agree OOW, I have seen many posts on these forums regarding visas being granted with no job on offer, people spending years and thousands making the move, only for years of hard work planning and hopes to be dashed once they arrive and can't find work.

 

Which ever way you look at it, it is a risky business.

 

I suppose that spawns a new question, what is the best, rock solid way of making the move with minimal risk and maximum opportunity?

[Daveakaginge]

I totally agree OOW, I have seen many posts on these forums regarding visas being granted with no job on offer, people spending years and thousands making the move, only for years of hard work planning and hopes to be dashed once they arrive and can't find work.

 

Which ever way you look at it, it is a risky business.

 

I suppose that spawns a new question, what is the best, rock solid way of making the move with minimal risk and maximum opportunity?

 

Put a million dollars in an Australian bank account, you're in, pr granted.

[ali]

I totally agree OOW, I have seen many posts on these forums regarding visas being granted with no job on offer, people spending years and thousands making the move, only for years of hard work planning and hopes to be dashed once they arrive and can't find work.

 

Which ever way you look at it, it is a risky business.

 

I suppose that spawns a new question, what is the best, rock solid way of making the move with minimal risk and maximum opportunity?

 

I don't think there is a rock solid way - because you don't factor in people. I've been on PIO and PP for many years and people with PR, jobs, family/friends here - have been homesick and returned.

 

I think there are more risks associated with the 457, it's great that they've now increased the time you have to get another sponsor, not so great that they're introducing school fees for children of 457 visa holders. I think that if people know what they're getting into - i.e. that it is a temporary visa and unless you meet the requirements to get a PR visa - that's all it's going to be.

[verystormy]

All visas carry some risk and I agree with Ali. I have seen a lot of people return. I saw one who after jumping through all the hoops of getting a PR visa they decided they didn't like it and were going to return on the way from the airport!

 

I think the entire process is one which needs a long conversation between the parties doing it and thrashing out the risks before you embark on the process. Including what you will do if one of you doesn't like it or can't settle.

 

The 457 has some unique challengers and these need to be discussed before jumping and where possible back up plans put in place. For example, I think it is wise not to sell the house in the UK if coming on a 457. Though we did.

[SJT]

I agree that all visas carry risks.

 

We decided to go PR and we wanted to chose when we came out here, where we worked and where we stayed, we wanted to be in control of all decisions that affected our life. When we started the process there were hundreds of jobs for my hubby, we actually got our state sponsorship in less than 48 hours which even surprised our agent who said they had never heard of that. We came out last July and it took my hubby seven months to find work, purely because of the who you know, not what you know mentality in WA. So the risk for us was he might not have been able to find work and then we would have had to go back. There are always risks with everything we do in life, but if you want to try something different, even if it is only for a little while, you have to take risks. We too a risk and everyone including close family thought we were mad, but we are here loving it.

[OnOurWay]

We are coming out in the riskiest way possible. 457s (only way we can) and we are selling the house, as we have no savings. However, for us there is a bigger risk, one that hasn't been mentioned yet. That's the risk of not trying. We are in our 40s and this is our last chance. Not taking the opportunity to try was the biggest risk of all for us. Maybe it'll work out for us, maybe it won't, but not trying, having been given the chance was too big a risk to take. We've worked hard to get this chance, with my wife giving up work and spending the last 4 years at university retraining as a midwife. She had yo spend a month by herself in Perth last year on a placement at a hospital and they offered to sponsor her when she qualified. In three-months or so we land in Perth with our nine year old son. Three suitcases and nothing else. I have no idea what I'll do work wise and it's all very scary. Fortunately we've become friends with a family on PP and they have offered to collect us from the airport and put us up for a night or two. The kindness of strangers is truely humbling!

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is the inaction brings its own risks. Not a day goes by when we don't ask ourselves what the hell we are doing, but for us, not to take the chance would be worse.

[elfie]

We are here through my hubbys work came on a 457. He came out May 2012. Am not going through it all from the beginning my posts are here regarding 457. If you can do another way do it. So much insecurity etc etc. Personally think its not a good visa end of nothing will change my mind on that. For us it was a case of devil if we do devil if we dont. Opportunities do not come knocking often so you have to grab with both hands. Didnt matter to us if it failed or not it was an experience we would never have had. With what he does he will never be out of work as he is so multi skilled. Not the case "master of none". We can always go back have not sold up lock stock and barrel to come here and never will. It is an indivdual decison to sell up everything to come here on this 457 visa personally would never specially if I had children of school age, but that is just us being us really, there are risks you take and risks you do not. You do need a nest egg when you arrive as for the first 6 months all you do is pay out hand over fist. Those who say no well they are telling mistruths. Exceptionally luck my hubby was ENS 186 sponsored. The ball started rolling after he had been here 8mths January 13 due to him turning 50 in January 14. Our PR arrived November this year. So its rubbish you have to work for employer for 2 years etc etc and graudate to PR after 4 years etc etc. Think it depends on the employers policy to sponsor early also due to the value they put on the employee.

The first 12 months were very stressful unless you go through it you cannot imagine. The build up and then wham your here is it what you expected or not? For me it was a big shock. But you just roll your sleeves up and get on with it through the tears lonliness and isolation. Yes it can be a lonely place not every area do neighbours come knocking your door with a pie or an invite to a BBQ. Luckily things are now coming together but I still count the days to go back home but not as much as I use to. The original plan remains we will go back home but now it will be when we decide not the rules of the 457.

[elfie]

PS - I still do not like Secret Harbour but will be more bearable come next Thursday when Tester arrives

[Daveakaginge]

We are coming out in the riskiest way possible. 457s (only way we can) and we are selling the house, as we have no savings. However, for us there is a bigger risk, one that hasn't been mentioned yet. That's the risk of not trying. We are in our 40s and this is our last chance. Not taking the opportunity to try was the biggest risk of all for us. Maybe it'll work out for us, maybe it won't, but not trying, having been given the chance was too big a risk to take. We've worked hard to get this chance, with my wife giving up work and spending the last 4 years at university retraining as a midwife. She had yo spend a month by herself in Perth last year on a placement at a hospital and they offered to sponsor her when she qualified. In three-months or so we land in Perth with our nine year old son. Three suitcases and nothing else. I have no idea what I'll do work wise and it's all very scary. Fortunately we've become friends with a family on PP and they have offered to collect us from the airport and put us up for a night or two. The kindness of strangers is truely humbling!

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is the inaction brings its own risks. Not a day goes by when we don't ask ourselves what the hell we are doing, but for us, not to take the chance would be worse.

 

Pretty much our story, except we were in our 50's.

[elfie]

Put a million dollars in an Australian bank account, you're in, pr granted.

 

 

Ah Ha Dave so thats how you really did then eh you sly old dog you

[Daveakaginge]

We are here through my hubbys work came on a 457. He came out May 2012. Am not going through it all from the beginning my posts are here regarding 457. If you can do another way do it. So much insecurity etc etc. Personally think its not a good visa end of nothing will change my mind on that. For us it was a case of devil if we do devil if we dont. Opportunities do not come knocking often so you have to grab with both hands. Didnt matter to us if it failed or not it was an experience we would never have had. With what he does he will never be out of work as he is so multi skilled. Not the case "master of none". We can always go back have not sold up lock stock and barrel to come here and never will. It is an indivdual decison to sell up everything to come here on this 457 visa personally would never specially if I had children of school age, but that is just us being us really, there are risks you take and risks you do not. You do need a nest egg when you arrive as for the first 6 months all you do is pay out hand over fist. Those who say no well they are telling mistruths. Exceptionally luck my hubby was ENS 186 sponsored. The ball started rolling after he had been here 8mths January 13 due to him turning 50 in January 14. Our PR arrived November this year. So its rubbish you have to work for employer for 2 years etc etc and graudate to PR after 4 years etc etc. Think it depends on the employers policy to sponsor early also due to the value they put on the employee.

The first 12 months were very stressful unless you go through it you cannot imagine. The build up and then wham your here is it what you expected or not? For me it was a big shock. But you just roll your sleeves up and get on with it through the tears lonliness and isolation. Yes it can be a lonely place not every area do neighbours come knocking your door with a pie or an invite to a BBQ. Luckily things are now coming together but I still count the days to go back home but not as much as I use to. The original plan remains we will go back home but now it will be when we decide not the rules of the 457.

 

Elfie, you keep on dissing 457's, you either had a bad experience, or something else. As long as the person on the 457 knows it's limitations, then they should use it if it's their only option. You do know, that after 45, you can't get pr!

[elfie]

Elfie, you keep on dissing 457's, you either had a bad experience, or something else. As long as the person on the 457 knows it's limitations, then they should use it if it's their only option. You do know, that after 45, you can't get pr!

 

 

Dave as stated read back on my posts regarding 457 I really cannot be bothered to go through our experience again. I will say the posts I make are from our experiences and perspectives - but it was pretty bad. The folks on this forum who have been here since I joined back in 2011 know the full story. I can assure you there is no need to point out the rules of 457 to am fully aware of them but thank you any way. You can obtain PR prior to the nomination ENS 186 being lodged before a 50th birthday we are living proof of it. Can send you a copy of our visa if you wish.